Government Operations Committee on June 9th, 2020

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

So it's complicated.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Let me give you an example. The employment insurance payments would take more than three weeks to get out. Now, through the CERB, we're getting payments out in a matter of two to three days.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll accept that quick turnaround, Mr. Minister, and through you, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Green, I'm sorry to interrupt. I wonder if I could get you to speak a little closer to the microphone. Our interpreters are having a bit of a problem.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm happy to. Thank you very much.

Mr. Minister, I appreciate that because there's certainly some complexity. I know that most of the casework we did was in trying to explain to people just how CERB would roll out, and in some instances, we actually had senior members—parliamentary secretaries—giving people online counsel to apply, to go ahead and do that. Also, we had noted labour lawyer Joshua Mandryk, from Goldblatt, talking about how his law firm actually had to do 19 or so posts just on COVID alone.

How do you square the fact that this program has evolved so much, and that while your government has said that they commit to helping Canadians, they now have pivoted and have framed this as some people are in fact fraudsters? I mean, actually—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Sorry. I completely disagree with the assertion in the question. I will submit to you that I am proud of the fact that we have delivered CERB payments to millions of Canadians. We've moved very quickly to do that, and it is because of our public officials. Our world-class civil servants came together and put together a mechanism to do that. I'm so proud of the fact that they were able to do that.

We have been informed by a compassionate lens to make sure that we move fast to get real money into the hands of Canadians. Yes, there are elements of fraud—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I appreciate that—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

—but the vast majority of Canadians are of good faith and we've gotten assistance to them.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I don't want to run this clock out, Mr. Minister. I want to get right to the thrust of it.

Are you going to throw people in jail while simultaneously putting $750 billion out to big banks in quantitative easing and into liquidity supports without any real restrictions or requirements? Are you really going to frame the most vulnerable people in this country as fraudsters and throw them in jail?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I appreciate the question, sir, but I reject the premise of pitting Canadians against businesses. I am proud that we have been able to be there for both Canada's businesses and families. The CERB—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

How many tax dodgers have you put in jail?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The CERB has been there to help Canadians quickly and effectively. People are paying their rent. They are buying food. I am proud of that record. I will put that record against any other government any day.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

How many people do you anticipate will be pursued and prosecuted and thrown into jail for trying to survive through a global pandemic?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

We have been informed by a compassionate lens, a reasonable lens, to get money out the door to Canadians. We don't view Canadians as inherently fraudsters. We view Canadians as people of good faith who just want to get by, as either a result of losing their jobs or whose jobs have simply disappeared. That was the thinking that informed the CERB.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Will your government take responsibility for some, perhaps, of the misleading directions that members of your caucus have provided to Canadians online?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I can speak to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

A brief response, please, Minister.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll give Ms. May my next round, Mr. Chair.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I'm proud of our response. We've been there for Canadians and we'll continue to be there.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to our second round of questions, which will be four minutes in length, starting with Mrs. Block.

Go ahead, for four minutes, please, Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I do thank the minister, as well as his departmental officials, for joining us.

Minister, Canadian families who don't normally qualify for the Canada child benefit have received a payment of approximately $300 per child as part of the COVID-19 CCB top-up. When they have called Service Canada to report the error and return the benefit, they have been told to donate it to a children's charity if they don't need it. This scenario that I've just described to you happened to our colleague, Rosemarie Falk, member of Parliament for Battlefords—Lloydminster.

Can you confirm whether or not Canadians who receive the CCB top-up in error will be asked to repay it come tax time?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Let me speak about the Canada child benefit. We introduced it because we wanted—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

No, no. Listen—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Well, I mean, if I'm allowed to respond, I—