Government Operations Committee on March 24th, 2021

[Bill Matthews]

Again, Mr. Chair, if you waited until there was a request for this, you'd be too late. The analysis of the market was that these supplies were being snapped up.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. There are a lot of imaginary things that I think we could go and give a sole-source contract to SNC for, that no one is asking for.

I want to go back to the nine million masks. We've asked this several times of you. The ones that we bought were substandard. Have we received our money back for those masks yet?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, those discussions are ongoing. The company attempted to replace them with suitable masks several times and was unsuccessful in providing masks that met our standards, so the negotiation dispute, call it what you will, is ongoing.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We've been told in this committee that taxpayers would be made whole by this company.

We've been told, well, we have an ongoing relationship with this company, so we can't push then too hard. We've heard, well, we'll just reuse those masks for other things. When are we going to see our money back for these masks?

[Bill Matthews]

The discussions with the company are ongoing. There is a different interpretation of their meeting of the contract requirements.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Was Deloitte involved?

Is Deloitte still involved over in China doing purchasing for us?

[Bill Matthews]

I will check with my colleague Ms. Reza to correct me, but I believe not.

Arianne, can you confirm that? They're no longer involved.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Was Deloitte involved in this purchase of the nine million masks?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, going from memory on this one, I don't believe they were, but if I have that incorrect, we can clarify with you.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When do you think you'll achieve resolution?

[Bill Matthews]

As I mentioned, it's a dispute, so it's hard to say where this will go. It could end up on a number of fronts.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Matthews; and thank you, Mr. McCauley.

We'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk, for five minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to pick up on a line of questioning that I started previously regarding the essential services contingency reserve. Can you tell us a little more about this reserve, the role it plays and how it's different from the NESS?

[Bill Matthews]

Certainly.

The essential services contingency reserve was set up as a vehicle to acquire and distribute PPE to industries and businesses that are in the essential category, that would not have been eligible to draw from the NESS but might have been in a world where they were struggling to obtain appropriate personal protective equipment given the shortage that was in place.

You're talking here about things such as gloves and face shields, basic PPE, and it was available to a broader group of businesses that essentially had to apply and then be vetted by the responsible department in terms of whether they would have qualified.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Can you give us a sense of the types of organizations or businesses that availed themselves of the contingency reserve, and can you give us a sense of how much of that reserve had actually been distributed?

[Bill Matthews]

We'll have to come back in terms of actual distribution, but the types of industries we're talking about here would have been agricultural, so think of food inspection or meat-processing plants. Utilities were on the list as well. It was essentially businesses that were necessary for the functioning of society but would not have been eligible for goods under the NESS.

I should have added transportation as well. An obvious one would have been a truck-driving business.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay.

I'm just curious. Whether it's the contingency reserve, whether it's the NESS, whether it's the hundred million syringes that were acquired or the 40,000 ventilators, or again, the tens of millions or hundreds of millions of vaccines, is there a cost share at all with either the province or the local partners, the health units or any of those? Is there any contribution expected from any of the partners?

[Bill Matthews]

The provision of goods by PHAC to the provinces is done without charge. The federal government is absorbing that cost. There were some purchases that were done jointly with provinces, so there might be the odd one-off.

On the essential services continency reserve, in that environment, the applying organization is expected to pay. When they apply, they are effectively reimbursing the federal government for the purchase. That was really about access to PPE as opposed to helping out financially.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

But for the most part—significantly for the most part, overwhelmingly—it was the federal government that pursued, procured and distributed to the provinces billions of dollars of PPE at no cost. Is that correct?

[Bill Matthews]

That is correct in terms of the flow-through to the provinces. Absolutely.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I want to pick up on a question that I think my colleague was starting to ask before he ran out of time. In PSPC's 2019-20 DRR, the responsible minister notes the following:

PSPC also continued to leverage federal procurement to better include Indigenous businesses by providing them with increased opportunities to access the federal government market. The Department is working with Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, Indigenous Services Canada and the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat to achieve a new target of at least 5 percent of federal contracts awarded to businesses managed and led by Indigenous Peoples.

What is the current percentage of all government contracts awarded to indigenous businesses, and how has this percentage evolved in the last number of years?

[Bill Matthews]

There is a concerted effort to increase indigenous participation in procurement, so awarding a high number of contracts through the COVID-specific procurement as well as in general....

Mr. Chair, I may turn to my colleague Lorenzo to finish this off, if that's okay.

[Lorenzo Ieraci]

In terms of indigenous procurement, our department is undertaking a number of activities in collaboration with colleagues in other departments, such as Indigenous Services Canada, as well as Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat and others.

One of the things I would highlight, for example, is our office of small and medium enterprises, or OSME, which does outreach and engagement activities with small businesses from coast to coast to coast. That includes putting increased focus and attention on indigenous businesses to make sure that indigenous businesses are aware of the federal government as a potential source for them in terms of contracting. We provide awareness and training services and help companies understand the federal procurement process, where to find opportunities and how to bid on those opportunities.

I realize I'm out of time. That's just one example of some of the activities we're undertaking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you. It's much appreciated.

I want to thank everybody for participating today. Thank you to the minister in particular for giving us the extra time.

Mr. Matthews, Mr. Vandergrift, Ms. Reza and Mr. Ieraci, thank you for coming back here on so many occasions. We appreciate it. We look forward to having you here again.

That said, we are only two minutes over time. I want to thank everybody for bearing with us.

I declare the meeting adjourned.

Goodnight, everybody.