Government Operations Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

The subcommittee could discuss motions that are there and come up with a motion to bring back to the committee, as they see fit.

Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I need to share a few things, Mr. Chair.

I'm at a distinct disadvantage here in this hybrid system in trying to ascertain what the speaking order is and to get on the speaking order. We're having people call in on points of order and jump into debate. Your interpretation, when I go to the English channel, is muted. I cannot hear it. I'm becoming increasingly agitated.

So I wish to call a point of order. I'm feeling like I'm being obstructed. I want to make sure I'm on the speakers list. I haven't spoken on any of this stuff since my motion. I want to be on the record today, from my perspective, to exactly what is happening here by the government [Inaudible—Editor].

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

At this point, Mr. Green, you are the last person I have on the list of speakers, so you are on the list.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. Just before we adjourn, I want to make sure that with these shenanigans coming out of the government side I'm not going to somehow get squeezed out of being able to contribute to this committee. Just for the record, they're probably going to lose this vote anyway.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Seeing no other hands, Mr. Kusmierczyk, you still have the floor.

Go ahead.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate all the comments here.

For the record, I'm ready for us to discuss the other motions that we had already deliberated upon in previous committee meetings, but here we have a motion that was dropped from the sky on us. I feel it is imperative on all of us—we've only been here for an hour, to be fair—to at least be able to put on the table our concerns about this particular motion. These concerns that we're trying to raise here may be discounted, may be minimized by other folks on this committee, but these are legitimate concerns that we have with a motion that we're hearing for the first time today.

Numerous motions were brought forward and debated in previous meetings that I'm happy to discuss and move forward on. The motions that my colleague Mr. Green has put forward are things we debated in the last meeting, and I think we should advance and do our best to proceed on those motions, as opposed to being distracted by new motions that just happen to fall from the sky and whatnot.

This is an opportunity for us to put all our concerns on the table, and these aren't illegitimate concerns. These concerns are shared by many Canadians. I look at, for example, an article that was published in Maclean's magazine that calls the motion that was just before us in the House “a farce”. It says:

It calls for the Health Committee to study every imaginable aspect of the COVID response, “including, but not limited to,” rapid testing; vaccine development and distribution; federal public health guidelines “and the data being used to inform them;” long-term care; the GPHIN early-warning system; protocols for travellers...emergency stockpiles, the COVID Alert smartphone app, contact tracing, and more and more. It’s a breathtaking list but it’s not even exhaustive: the “including, but not limited to” wording means that anything else that pops into any member’s mind or inbox could be added at any time.

How shall this committee undertake its work? By calling on six government offices to provide “all memoranda, emails, documents, notes and other records” on “plans, preparations, approvals and purchasing of COVID-19 testing products including tests, reagents, swabs, laboratory equipment and other material.” That’s just one of seven wide-scale fishing expeditions listed in the motion.

And here's the important point that I'm trying to make here:

All requiring massive deployment of government resources. All with potentially zero utility even to the motion’s stated purpose, because if this committee sat until Doomsday it would not be able to examine or discuss the thousandth part of the haystack this motion would order up.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Lloyd, go ahead.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Mr. Chair, I hope the member realizes he's not on the health committee; he's on the OGGO committee. He seems to be talking exclusively about the motion that was passed in the House recently related to the health committee, and he is on the government estimates committee. What's the relevance of his comments today?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I'd ask all members that their points pertain to discussions that we have. I will allow some latitude, but please keep them reflective of the discussion.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

The point I'm trying to make picks up on a point that my colleague made earlier in this meeting, which is that there are other committees studying these very issues and calling on these same government officials, these same companies, these same people and these same witnesses to testify across various committees.

The point I'm trying to make here is that we are in the middle of the greatest pandemic and health challenge that we've ever faced as a country. We have officials who are working day and night—seven days a week, 24-7—to address this issue. It seems to me that the only thing my colleagues across the aisle are focused on.... Rather than helping these folks in their work to prepare us for the second wave of the pandemic, all they care about is producing papers, establishing committee after committee, duplicating witnesses, duplicating—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Paul-Hus has a point of order.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My colleague, who is participating in this meeting virtually, and my Liberal friends don't need to waste their breath. We could adjourn the debate on my motion. I believe that they clearly demonstrated their refusal to co-operate and their intention to ignore the story involving Frank Baylis. It couldn't be more obvious. If they had shown the least bit of willingness, there would have been some debate and then a vote. We would have continued our work effectively for the good of Canadians.

I'm prepared to adjourn the debate on my motion. They demonstrated that we have more serious issues to resolve.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus, for your statement. However, you can't move that motion on a point of order. It would be up to the committee if they want to reflect on what you stated and respond to that accordingly.

Ms. Vignola, go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

My colleague is moving to adjourn the debate. However, I fully understand that he isn't in a position to do this, so I'll take over.

Can we adjourn the debate on Mr. Paul-Hus' motion and continue discussing other less cumbersome matters?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

I'm going to ask if there's consensus among committee members to adjourn the debate on this motion.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Green, go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What is the speakers list? I would still like to know whether or not.... How close was I to actually being able to have an intervention at this committee? I have a parliamentary privilege to participate in this committee. I feel like that's getting pushed out here because of the shenanigans that are happening, Mr. Chair.

After Mr. Kusmierczyk, how many speakers would there have been before I reached my opportunity to have an intervention on this?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I had about six other speakers before you.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay, you can go ahead and adjourn.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Can I see a show of hands to adjourn?

(Motion agreed to)

Mr. Green, go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, now that it's been adjourned, I'd like to go ahead and revisit the motion that I had presented. We gave pause to it to allow for Mr. Paul-Hus. It's the one that I had duly put forward.

I'd like to ask if I could speak to that motion, or to the amended portion of that motion, as the first person on the speakers list, given that we're now in a bit of a free-for-all.