Evidence of meeting #31 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was purves.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, the goal is not to have a lower percentage than where we're currently at. The goal is always, as is the case with many of the departmental results that one will find in the departmental plan, continuous improvement. Even in circumstances where—
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Sorry. Excuse me. I'm just going to clarify here. The term “benchmark” was used. The words “continuous improvement” were used, but the goal that I'm reading here—I have the chart right in front of me—is not actually that the percentage would be increased but rather that it would be decreased from where it's currently at.
6:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, I don't have the report directly in front of me, but I can see the table in my mind's eye. I do recall that when it speaks to the target on the page itself, it says “at least”, and then the percentage. What that indicates is that the goal isn't to lower, for example, the representation to that rate. It's really to at least achieve that level of representation, and wherever possible, of course, exceed it.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay, but again, the number is coming down. It's moving in a downward direction, in other words, fewer numbers who are members of a minority group, and fewer numbers who are women. It's moving down.
If I write a math exam and I get 71%, my goal next time is not going to be, “Gee, I think I'll set the benchmark at 65%.” No, my benchmark is going to be 85%. In what world does it make sense for the department to set its benchmark lower than where it's currently at?
6:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, thank you again for the question—
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
—I don't actually need the document to describe it. I just want to understand the philosophy behind it.
6:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, the benchmark is actually calculated based on the data that is available on labour force availability. Essentially, they're technical adjustments that are made to calculate, not just determine willy-nilly, for example, what we think a good percentage is, but to calculate exactly, or as exactly as possible, what the available workforce is for the four EE groups that departments have at their disposal. It's not, in a sense, a goal that is set arbitrarily by Treasury Board Secretariat, or by the President of the Treasury Board, or by Treasury Board. It's a goal. It is a benchmark that is established under authorities in legislation, and it is calculated using a set formula.
6:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you, Mr. Yalkin and Ms. Harder.
We'll now go to Mr. MacKinnon for five minutes.
6:40 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
For everyone's information, I'm the last questioner, so I'll try to perhaps yield some time back. I know it's been a long day for everyone.
I am struck, and I've been listening intently to the back-and-forth today. I'm not sure that those who are watching the committee today will be particularly enlightened with respect to the government's commitment for diversity by the previous line of questioning about benchmarks, which are called benchmarks, but are, in fact, targets, and so on.
I want to applaud the officials before us, and, of course, the government that I'm a part of for its commitment to diversity in the public service. That's an ongoing commitment. I know it's one that all of you take very seriously.
I won't ask you to explain any further, Mr. Yalkin, but I do want to point out that this very sterile debate that we just had is not at all a reflection of the significant progress that has been made with respect to diversity in the public service. I want to thank you for that.
I do want to speak, though, about collective bargaining. I recall specifically that when this government took office in 2015, we were way behind on collective bargaining with public servants. We had to catch up very quickly. Then, in 2018, a second round was accomplished in rather speedy fashion, if I do say so myself.
Can one of you—I'm not sure who, perhaps it's you, Mr. Yalkin—outline for us the collective bargaining schedule that lies ahead, and how the government's looking and planning to that?
6:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
I apologize. I'm by no means an expert when it comes to collective bargaining. I'm really representing the expertise of my colleagues in the office of the chief human resources officer on this. I understand that notice has been given to collective bargain, that plans are well under way to begin that process this summer, and that my colleagues are very much looking forward to that opportunity.
6:40 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
How much time, roughly? Again, we're not looking for the government's negotiating strategy, but what kind of timetable are we looking at? What are the priority groups and so on?
6:40 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
It's very hard to say in terms of a timeline. The nature of negotiations is that they don't lend themselves well to precise timelines. As I mentioned, what I do know and what I can say is that negotiations are planned to begin this summer. I have no doubt they will continue into the fall. I would also be happy to come back to the committee with further precisions, should those be available, to provide more details on that.
6:40 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
That's very good. I appreciate it.
Mr. Chair, that's all I have for today.
6:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you, Mr. MacKinnon. I appreciate that.
With that said, as he indicated, he was the last questioner.
I'd like to thank you, Mr. Ermuth, Ms. Cahill, Mr. Purves, Ms. Read, Mr. Yalkin and Mr. Greenough, for coming and continuing to come to committee and for presenting and answering our questions when you can.
As we've indicated before, where there were questions asked that you could provide further information in writing on, it would be greatly appreciated if you'd provide that to the clerk so that it can be distributed to the committee.
With that said, I want to thank everyone. It's been a long day. I wish you all a good evening.
I adjourn the meeting.