Government Operations Committee on June 2nd, 2021

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Chair, I'm going to pause right there.

I'd like the minister to substantiate the fact that she is calling my claim incorrect. I have the 2019 mandate letter and I have the 2021 mandate letter. On what basis is the minister saying I'm incorrect?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

If the honourable member would allow me a moment to explain, I will do so. The letter that we were recently provided is, in fact, supplementary to the 2019 mandate letter. Therefore, the target of having at least 5% of federal contracts awarded to indigenous businesses stands and it is a target that we are still aiming to reach. The preamble, in fact, is clear that the 2019 letter stands, if the member would care to read the preamble.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay.

Minister, I also have the departmental plan and I've read through from 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22. Interestingly enough, you may or may not be aware of this, but the plan actually says that for goals for women and indigenous businesses, it's TBD. I have that document right here. It says, “TBD”, to be determined. In other words, there are actually no goals set.

Minister, you're actually misleading the committee right now by saying there are big goals and that you are achieving them. There are none. I have the documents right in front of me. How do you explain that?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, “misleading” is unparliamentary language.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I would ask that everybody be respectful of each other in their responses, on both sides, along those lines.

Carry on, Minister.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I did not hear a question in the member's last comment. I'll wait to hear the actual question.

Thank you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I was just wondering why the minister, through you, Mr. Chair, is choosing to try to mislead this committee, as if she has a plan, when in fact I have a document in front of me that shows that she's had four years—

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

This is outrageous. On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I would actually ask you to make a ruling. That's unparliamentary language. That's not acceptable. An apology is warranted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

We will suspend for a second.

We will bring the meeting back to order.

I thank the member for his comments. I appreciate that.

At this point in time, I see that in the context of the discussion, and therefore I will allow it to stand at this point.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm just waiting for the minister's answer.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I mentioned, we do have a target in my mandate letter. That is a target of a minimum of 5% that I and the department are seeking to reach. Once we have the data to establish the baseline, we will measure the percentage increase and measure our performance against that baseline. So I would—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Minister, thank you.

What's interesting to me, though, is that the baseline hasn't been established, so I don't know what you're measuring your success against. Again, I have four years' worth of departmental plans that show there is no plan, that there is no benchmark, in terms of wanting to procure through businesses that are led by indigenous people or by women.

Minister, my next question is very simple. Did you sign the departmental plans?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Well, actually, I would like to really correct the member, because there is—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

No. It's pretty simple.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

—an objective—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

The departmental plans are for your department. Did you sign them? Did you sign off?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

There is an objective in my mandate letter of a minimum of 5%. That's the target we're working towards. That's what we're working towards.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

She didn't answer my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Weiler for five minutes.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. I believe this will be my last question. We have reached the—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Yes, Minister, this is the last person up for questions.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I appreciate your bearing with us, as we're a couple of minutes over time. We appreciate it.

Mr. Weiler.