Evidence of meeting #105 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It was $60 million.
1 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
It was $60 million, yes.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Do you think taxpayers got good value for money with this app? It's a pretty straightforward question.
1 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
I think that what we were looking at while we were building it when I was there was how we could keep having people move through airports, how we could get information to provinces and territories—
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Do you think it's good value for money for the at least 10,000 people who were wrongly quarantined for 14 days? They were placed under house arrest under threat of jail. Do you think that they think it's good value for money?
1 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
Quarantine didn't even exist when I left.
I guess I would say that with that question, you can see the complexity of what was created in the decisions that were made by PHAC, CBSA and others.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It's a very expensive product that failed Canadians in a terrible way.
In your opening statement, you said you believed that people were being extorted for government contracts. Who was that? Just give the name, please. Who was being extorted?
1 p.m.
Director General, Information Technology Branch, Canada Revenue Agency, As an Individual
I can answer that.
It's not what we said; it's what CBSA said. It was that sharing the misconduct report was in exchange for a contract of services and for participating in the interview—
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'm looking for the names, sir.
1 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
Ritika Dutt and Amir Morv are the owners of Botler. They are the ones who put in the allegations initially. They sent them to Erin O'Gorman and “leadership”. Then they asked for a contract to be able to give the misconduct report, and another contract to participate—
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
What tech would GC Strategies have been able to showcase in the technical bake-off that you mentioned?
1 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
I wasn't there and I'm not 100% certain, but I believe there was a company in Ottawa that they partnered with that was hugely into data and analytics and had done some work at Transport Canada. There were two companies, and I think they showcased what they were capable of doing and what they had done before.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Wouldn't it have raised red flags that you had a company there showing off another company?
GC Strategies was making 30% on a $20-million contract, which, as I pointed out yesterday with some quick math, is enough to hire 10 full-time public servants for 25 years. GC Strategies was making 30% on a $20-million contract to make introductions. Then the introduction was made.
These guys were using Google searches. Did no one see something wrong with using a middleman that was cutting 30% off of this? Did no one see that this was insane?
1:05 p.m.
Director General, Information Technology Branch, Canada Revenue Agency, As an Individual
Maybe I can opine in here.
With respect to skill sets and costs, the public service and public servants are not Lego pieces that can be interchangeably used in the same way.
For example, we did reach out to CDS, which is the Canadian Digital Service, looking to leverage that in a program whereby we would bring in expertise. The annual cost would have been $400,000 per person, plus the EBPs, the employee benefits.
These skill sets are not interchangeable or—
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
We're out of time here.
Who has deleted records related to ArriveCAN?
1:05 p.m.
Director General, Information Technology Branch, Canada Revenue Agency, As an Individual
The reports that we have seen in the media have pointed to Minh Doan.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Do you know of anyone? Can you assert? If you can assert that anyone has deleted records, I just need the name. I'm very short on time. I just need the name.
1:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
Minh Doan has deleted emails, and we did not have our accounts locked down until after we testified. We are very concerned that our emails have been deleted, because they won't give us records of who's accessed our emails.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Would you say that this is a cover-up?
1:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
I believe there's the potential for it, and all we've been trying to do is seek justice, fairness and transparency.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Why do you think that there's a cover-up?
1:05 p.m.
Director General, Information Technology Branch, Canada Revenue Agency, As an Individual
It's a great question, and we want to know as well. We've been asking for information and disclosure.
1:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Health Canada, COVID and Pandemic Response Secretariat, As an Individual
If we have the time, I told you guys about Minh Doan threatening me, and nobody did anything.
Kelly Belanger was nowhere to be found. The OAG keeps on saying that there was a lack of project management. Her husband was convicted of sexually assaulting young girls and he got convicted and went to jail, and she wasn't around. I had been asked, and Mr. Utano had been asked, to help her out while she was gone for family problems.
Erin O'Gorman didn't do anything when she found out that I was threatened. Mr. Doan had threatened somebody else and been docked pay, so she knew there was a pattern of this behaviour. When we talk about why there would be a reason or a separation, I never had any problems when I was at the CBSA. I got asked to go to Health Canada because of my record at the CBSA and my record previous to it.
Therefore, I don't know. Neither does Mr. Utano, who had a spotless record. We're just trying to get the right information. We're trying to have transparency and now, after everything that's happened, we want independence from what the CBSA has done.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You don't trust the Trudeau government to review their own scandal.
February 22nd, 2024 / 1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
That is our time, gentlemen. Thanks very much.
Ms. Atwin, please go ahead.