Government Operations Committee on March 27th, 2024

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I don't think we were aware of that. I don't think we have consent, Mr. Chair, to proceed tomorrow given that we've not been provided notice and we're still not aware of who the witnesses are.

Who are the witnesses tomorrow? That has not even been discussed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's on the notice, Mr. Sousa. If you look at the notice, you will see who's been booked. Again, it went out before the meeting started.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I think there is a lack of desire to proceed without having prior consultation as a result of the motion we brought forward today. I suspect we are going to request that we cancel the meeting for tomorrow as a result of the violation of the privileges of members of the committee who have not been notified appropriately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

I have several others who want to speak. I have Mr. Chambers, Mr. Kusmierczyk and Mrs. Atwin.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

My view is that the notice had already gone out for tomorrow before we passed the motion. The government members may have wanted to be very clear, but the motion they brought forward was silent on what we were supposed to do about tomorrow. They could have easily made that clarification, so I leave it to the chair's discretion, which is used in every other committee, by the way.

To the extent that the government members are upset about this, perhaps they should be careful, because it's their committee chairs at other committees who take much greater liberties with the Standing Orders in this respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

I appreciate that and will again note that, for example, in both upcoming studies, we've had to extend witnesses. I've also had to go in and fill witnesses for both an NDP and Liberal study. Therefore, it has happened before that I've had to go out and find witnesses.

Again, Mr. Chambers is right; it did go out before that.

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Again, I disagree with how the meeting that's scheduled for tomorrow was organized. We were not consulted. We were provided no opportunities for instruction. There was no consultation. There was no discussion. It doesn't provide us the time we need to prepare for an important meeting. Every meeting is important, but meetings like that one, with the witnesses, are especially so. This is not how we've conducted business in the five years that I have been on committee.

I am simply registering my absolute, wholehearted disagreement with the way all these meetings have been scheduled this week. It is not aligned with the motion that we passed earlier today. I want to register my complete disagreement and disappointment with how these last three meetings have been organized, completely without any consultation or input from this committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mrs. Atwin.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to reiterate what my colleagues have shared, I mean, reading in a Global News article that we were going to have a meeting Thursday was really disappointing. It defeats the collaborative atmosphere that I think we're all trying to achieve here. We have really important work to do. I think we very much were distracted from that important work today. Our focus on main estimates kind of went down a path it shouldn't have, and I see that it would be the case for tomorrow as well.

OGGO is a very important committee. You state this yourself at the beginning of our meetings all the time, that it's “the only committee that matters”. Let's proceed in a way that's respectful of all our time and our constituency time as well. This has happened repeatedly now since Christmas. It's really important to me to connect with my community. For me, that's a big piece that's missing here as well.

Again, I read about a committee meeting and witnesses in a Global News article. What happened there, Mr. Chair? We really need to have an atmosphere of respect here, and I'd like to see it return to that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'll address that before I get to Mr. Sousa.

Very clearly, I do not talk to Global or whoever you're referring to. I saw Premier Higgs talking about it on Twitter, but that's him talking about it, not the committee.

Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, given the discussions we're having, maybe it's appropriate to put forward a motion.

Again, given the lack of consultations, the lack of advisement to us and the violation of our privileges as members, if all agree, I'd like to put forward a motion that we cancel tomorrow's meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Before I get to that, it's not a violation of privileges for the chair to book. I'm happy to read the exact wording for everyone from the big green book.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I would appreciate that we also stick to the facts. It's not a violation of your privileges for me as chair to book a meeting.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It appears that everyone else seems to know about these meetings before us. That includes the premiers and the witnesses who are being advised—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

This might come as a shock to you, Mr. Sousa, but witnesses can't be called until—

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Again, it was without consultation and without discussion on this. We have other priorities that we were looking at going forward, and you haven't made those happen. You have not—

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

On a point of order, I believe there's a motion on the floor.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I guess just correcting Mr. Sousa, you can argue as you wish. That's fine. I appreciate that. I appreciate all sides to this. I appreciate your feelings on this, but your privileges have not been violated. For example, we invited witnesses for a Liberal study because none of the Liberals put forward witnesses. That is not a violation of your privileges.

I understand what you're saying, but I wanted to clear up that one point. I think it's an important one.

We will start a speaking order. Hold one on second.

Okay. This is on—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I see that Mr. Drouin has his hand up. We'll get to Mr. Sousa's motion that he just brought in, but first I have a point of order.

Go ahead, Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We are not currently in committee business and this is not of the subject matter, so I believe this motion is out of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate that, Mr. Lawrence, but I understand that, procedurally, it is.

Mr. Kusmierczyk, is it on Mr. Sousa's motion or on a different issue?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

It's on this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, sir.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, the trust that is fundamental to the work of this committee has been broken. The principle of collaboration that underpins all of our work here on Parliament Hill and in this committee has been broken.

I turn to you, sir, and I say that this is an opportunity here, today, for us and for you to begin the work of repairing that trust and repairing that relationship that is broken. I place that on your shoulders, sir.

What I would recommend is that you work together with the members of all parties around this table, as you've done in the past, to pick a date and a time that works for this committee. If it's the will of this committee to bring those witnesses forward and to have this discussion, then work with us, Mr. Chair, as has been your tradition since the beginning of your term as the chair of this committee.

I ask you to work to repair this trust, to repair this relationship. Let's put this committee back on track, and let's rebuild that relationship and that trust. I believe it begins today with this motion, sir. I ask you to consider the objections this committee has brought forward publicly about the way we've been conducting business here over the last several weeks.

I ask again that you help us rebuild the trust. Let's rebuild the relationship, and let's put this committee back on track. I ask you for that, sir, and I look to your leadership on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

I have Mrs. Vignola and then Mr. Drouin.