Government Operations Committee on Aug. 21st, 2024

[Stéphane Cousineau]

We actually have briefs as per normal process with the minister's office.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Was she briefed on the acquisition of this property?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

She was informed.... The chief of staff was informed in June 2024.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm going to push back on some of the narrative that has been circulated among Canadians. Your department is quoted as follows:

Considering the high renovation costs for the current residence and the value of the property, [GAC has] recommended a relocation to a new, smaller, more suitable, and more economical apartment.

In addition of representing a saving opportunity of [more than $2 million]...it will also reduce ongoing maintenance costs and property taxes, supports future program needs, and meets representational requirements.

At first blush, this may give the impression to Canadians that you're actually downsizing. When Canadians think of the term “downsizing”, they think of perhaps raising a family, having an empty nest and moving from a four- to five-bedroom home to a small one-bedroom or two-bedroom condo, but that's the furthest from the truth in relation to the acquisition of this property on Billionaires' Row. In fact, the old property on Park Avenue was roughly 3,800 square feet, and you downsized—wait for it—to a whopping 3,600 square feet. The rooms have actually increased. The old property had 12 rooms, and the new property has 14 rooms. You're not giving Canadians the full truth here. You're not being honest with them in terms of the actual blueprint.

I also want to talk about the operating costs. You keep talking about these savings, and that you're saving Canadians up to $115,000 per year. I've got the listings from both of these properties from a website called StreetEasy. The old monthly maintenance cost, which includes the common fees and the taxes, is $13,147 U.S. per month. The new property is not a savings at all: Taxes and common charges are actually $15,213, so it's $2,000 U.S. per month more for this new property that's supposed to be saving Canadians money.

You're misrepresenting the facts. You're not telling the truth to Canadians. I want you to be aware of this, and I want you to comment on it, because you talk in broad strokes about these savings, but when you dig down into this, there's no savings at all.

Let's talk about the utility costs. What currently are the utility costs on Park Avenue versus utility costs on 57th Street? Is there a savings?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Chair, I welcome the chance to clarify the costs. I will turn to my colleague Robin—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I didn't need that, sir. That's a waste of time. If anyone knows the answer, please, Mr. Dubeau, answer the question.

[Robin Dubeau]

I don't have the cost of the utilities at the new place. We have not occupied it yet, but I have the total amount that is forecasted to be spent on an ongoing basis per month.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay. Is that a saving over Park Avenue, or is it the same, or is it more?

[Robin Dubeau]

It's a saving.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It's a saving. You'll table that for us.

[Robin Dubeau]

We could.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You'll table the monthly utility costs for Park Avenue and the monthly utility costs for West 57th Street, okay?

[Robin Dubeau]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

What else about the property—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Mr. Brock, but that is our time.

Mr. Bains, please go ahead, sir.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests for joining us today.

Has GAC dealt with any cases similar to this case where a residence or other real property was bought to replace one that was being sold?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

We do have a lot of official residences around the globe and hundreds of projects.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

How many?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

I will turn to Robin, who might have more specific information about that.

[Robin Dubeau]

That's a good question.

As my colleague Mr. Cousineau was explaining, we basically report in the federal real property directory that we're the custodians of 2,300 properties, and we do transactions on a regular basis every year. We transact for staff quarters and for official residences.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but do you look at your criteria to ensure that these are located in the right areas? How do you determine which areas? I know that it's a lengthy analysis that you do, but typically one of the key pieces is that they should be located in areas where diplomatic relations occur. Is that correct?

[Robin Dubeau]

The requirements change depending on whether they're residential spaces for staff quarters, official residences for representation purposes or chanceries that are office space. We basically look at a set of criteria as you described there to select those locations.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

How many did you say there were? Did you say over 1,000?

[Robin Dubeau]

We have 2,300 assets abroad.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

In how many different countries?