Government Operations Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2024

[Emily Nicholson]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Really, the role of the deputy minister's office is not only to ensure, first and foremost, that the running of the department is being handled, but also to ensure that the minister's office has the most up-to-date information on whatever might be of direct relevance to its work.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

It looks like a complex structure, the way you depicted it. Can you talk about the organization that exists in GAC and how your department fits into it?

[Emily Nicholson]

Certainly. The department is organized under four deputy ministers, including a deputy minister of foreign affairs, a deputy minister of international trade, and a deputy minister of international development. The associate deputy minister primarily supports the deputy minister of foreign affairs.

Under each of the four deputies, they each have clear branches of responsibility, which is how we refer to them, and those are components of the department that work on different aspects.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

This is under the foreign affairs ministry. Is that correct?

[Emily Nicholson]

The role that I serve, if it's helpful, is under the associate deputy minister of foreign affairs. That role largely looks at the corporate matters, and it is in that capacity that a question of property would come to our office.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. A question of property came as part of a regular process, and you provided an update on June 17. Is that correct?

[Emily Nicholson]

Yes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

For that update, you said that you acted as a liaison. You brought the source of information, and you highlighted to whom you reached out to get the information. On July 25, a month or so after, you felt that there was a need for an update. In your response to my colleague MP Barrett, you talked about the office of the associate making a request and about you preparing it. What is the office of the associate?

[Emily Nicholson]

My apologies for any confusion there. The official title of the person whom I serve is the associate deputy minister of foreign affairs. When I say “the office of the associate”, I am referring to our office.

Just to clarify, if it is helpful, while the timing may be such that an email was officially sent on July 25, the process of gathering that information had been in the works for some time. The associate, after June 17, had requested the leads to compile a full summary and a chronology of events with respect to this process. This multi-year process was quite complex because it took place over the span of 10 years, which was eight years prior to the current head of mission's arrival.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

It's more of a coincidence, as you're stating it, that on July 25 the email came up, but the work on that email started way back, which was June 17. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, sir.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Nicholson, I'll give you time to adjust your earpiece.

[Emily Nicholson]

I'm very sorry, but I don't think that my headpiece is working correctly.

To make sure I can understand all the questions in French, could someone please help me?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Just a minute, the technicians will help you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I will just freeze the clock for 15 seconds.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My colleagues have already talked about this. I'm trying to understand the statement in the June 17 email versus the July 25 email.

In your email of June 17, 2024, you wrote, “The head of mission … and mission staff played a key role throughout the process …”

What do you think a “key role” means? What does it mean, in concrete terms, to play a “key role”?

[Emily Nicholson]

I will explain myself in English just to make sure I am clear.

I'm sorry, but this still wasn't working very well, so I really didn't hear most of the question. I apologize.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll suspend for 30 seconds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back.

Please continue, Mrs. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So I'm going to ask my question again.

The June 17, 2024 email said, “The head of mission … and mission staff played a key role throughout the process, and the head of mission approved the selection of the new residence.”

First, what do you think a “key role” means? What does that mean in terms of the concrete actions that were taken?

Secondly, you wrote, “the head of mission has approved the selection of the new residence.” Is it an actual approval, or is it simply an administrative requirement without the head of mission really making the final decision?

[Emily Nicholson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify.

With respect to “instrumental”, what was communicated to me was that the mission staff, for example, had been instrumental in assisting with engaging a broker or realtor on the ground, had accompanied the property team to the 21 different site visits, and had been involved in the process throughout the period of over 10 years.

In order to provide a more fulsome response to that question, I would need to refer you to my colleague, Stéphane Cousineau, who is more familiar with the processes, but what was communicated to me was that the mission staff had been involved in supporting the staff.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

I will get back to the mission staff, but the email also refers to the head of mission.

What concrete actions has the head of mission taken to show that he played a key role?

[Emily Nicholson]

Again, as I stated in my opening remarks, that email should have been drafted more clearly. It should have said, “The head of mission was aware of the process, and the staff were instrumental.” I apologize for the confusion. Again, this was a transitory email that was meant as a quick update, a placeholder to the chief of staff in an initial response to his question, which was focused primarily on understanding the rationale and the business case for the department's decision to sell.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

My second question was about the head of mission and the approval of the selection of the new residence.

Did he actually approve it, or was it just an administrative requirement? What would the consequences have been had he not approved it?

[Emily Nicholson]

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the term “green light” was meant as a thumbs-up. It was just intended to communicate that the consul general was aware of and prepared to deal with the hassle of moving partway through his assignment and that he had not raised any concerns with the department's decision to move forward with the selection of the sale.

Again, it could have been crafted better. At the time, this email was focused primarily on addressing questions about the sale.