Evidence of meeting #143 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was email.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
That means, respectfully, that on the $9-million condo, you are not the expert.
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
That would be accurate, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You received information from the experts before you sent this email on June 17. Is that correct?
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, in compiling the information for the June 17 email, I—
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It came from the experts.
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It came from our property branch, yes.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You just testified that you issued a correction to your email. The story that you've told today doesn't add up, just like the two emails that you've sent don't add up. You're saying two contradictory things: that you only report the info that you receive but, on July 25, you arrived at a conclusion on your own, absent the other information.
If the subject matter experts told you in June that the head of mission, to use your words, was “providing the greenlight for the selection of the new residence”, if that's what the experts told you and if you're just air traffic control and you just landed the information in the document, well, where did the new information come from? This is what doesn't make sense.
Which subject matter expert told you on July 25, the day after a standing committee of the House of Commons launched an investigation into this $9-million condo, that Mr. Clark didn't have anything to do with it? What is the name?
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the experts have already been stated. It was Mr. Robin Dubeau, assistant deputy minister for property, and his team.
To clarify, the request for the chronology and the information that was provided in that quite fulsome email had been made—
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
When? On what date was the request made for the chronology from the minister's office?
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, following the initial information that was provided to the minister's office on June 17, the office of the associate engaged with my colleagues in the property branch and asked them to pull together a more fulsome explanation.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
On what date did you get the request?
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would have to go back. I don't have a date off the top of my head.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
We're going to need you to table it, because it just seems.... Do you agree to table that with the committee?
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Of course.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It seems incredible. What a coincidence that you get the information from the experts, you circulate that in the department, and a correction is issued only after a happenstance conversation with the minister's office. Suddenly, the head of mission is no longer giving the green light. That simply does not add up. It's absolutely not believable.
In the absence of proof of what you're saying, it appears you're misleading us today. We have your own words, making the assertion that the green light was given by the head of mission, Tom Clark, to buy a $9-million condo after the Treasury Board changed the rules to allow for purchases of less than $10 million without cabinet approval. It's like this perfect puzzle was put together. The only interruption was that a standing committee started an investigation, and, suddenly, a correction needed to be made.
Does that sound believable to you? Does this presentation of facts sound believable to you? What you said on June 17 is one thing. Of your own volition—without any new information—at the end of July, you say the complete opposite. You assert the complete opposite without any evidence that what you're asserting is true.
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It would be inaccurate to say that there was no new information presented. As I have said from the outset, the email provided on June 17 was very much an initial overview and not an attempt to capture everything. It focused specifically on the sale—
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
From an overview perspective—
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
—you said Tom Clark gave the green light, and you only changed your story after an investigation was launched. That's the bottom line.
Conservative
October 3rd, 2024 / 12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much for being with us, Ms. Nicholson.
If you'd like to clarify, was the second response the opposite of what you had said, or was it a clarification?
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As said, the information provided on July 25 was very much a more fulsome business case and a more fulsome explanation that was put together by the leads to provide a detailed chronology. I appreciate being here to clarify the words that I drafted because, of course, taken out of context, any snapshot moment in time can be misconstrued and viewed as something else. I am here today to correct, as the author of the statement, what was intended.
What I intended in drafting that statement was simply to convey that the head of mission was aware and had not raised any concerns or objections to the department's plan to proceed with the purchase. There was certainly additional information—in response to the previous member's question—that was brought to our office and was gathered by the property leads between June 17 and July 25. That's why they were asked to gather additional information.
It would be inaccurate to say that the information provided on July 25 came out of nowhere. That would be inaccurate and is not the truth.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you very much.
The green light referred to the department's plan and the process and not the purchase of the property.
Director and Chief of Staff of the Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Certainly. The information conveyed to me was that the head of mission was giving the green light for the plan and of the plan. He was not green-lighting the plan.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you.
Recent media reports indicate that senior officials were not informed of this purchase. Is this a gap? Is there a way to address this? Should they have been informed?
