Government Operations Committee on Oct. 17th, 2024

[Joëlle Paquette]

There are various ways for us to increase indigenous participation in our contracts. One of them is for the prime contractor—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry, but I have very limited time. Can you answer the specific question? The one-third subcontract rule, is it enforced?

[Joëlle Paquette]

In what context do you want that? If there is an indigenous requirement—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Ma'am, it's very simple. When an indigenous company receives a contract under a set-aside, they are required to have one-third of their subcontractors be indigenous companies. It appears that there is no tracking of this.

It's a very simple question: Is the one-third subcontract rule enforced, yes or no?

[Joëlle Paquette]

That would be enforced by Indigenous Services Canada.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Is it being enforced right now or you don't know?

[Joëlle Paquette]

They would be the ones able to answer that question.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Ma'am, either it's being enforced or it isn't being enforced, or you don't know whether it's being enforced. That's my question. Which is it? Do you not know?

[Joëlle Paquette]

You have to refer to Indigenous Services Canada to obtain a response to that question.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I believe that's my time, but can you put the question to the witness and insist that she provide a response? If she doesn't know, she doesn't know, but she should tell us she doesn't know. Is the requirement being enforced? I have asked the question four or five times now and the witness has an obligation to answer it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Ms. Paquette.

[Joëlle Paquette]

It is the responsibility of Indigenous Services Canada to enforce that, and they're doing the audits and validation of this happening. That's what I know. I don't know whether they are doing it, but it's their responsibility and therefore they're doing it.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay, so she doesn't know whether it's being enforced.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Maybe I can ask this for Mr. Genuis: Does PSPC not have an oversight responsibility for that considering it's purchasing? I'm trying to continue—

[Joëlle Paquette]

We're not the ones responsible for validating or auditing the IBD list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Do you mean the list or purchases?

[Joëlle Paquette]

I mean the directory. We're responsible for procuring. We're not responsible for the directory, but we need to validate through the directory—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize. I just want to make sure we're getting the right question to you.

We'll move to Mrs. Atwin now.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry, Chair, on a point of order, we're somewhat getting—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Mrs. Atwin. Just give me one second.

Did that not answer the question put forward, Mr. Genuis?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I understand they don't maintain the list, but it's a question of whether the rule around subcontracting is enforced. That is a responsibility that should follow the procurement department, and the witness is saying she doesn't know, which is bizarre—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

The question is, are the contracting rules, not the list, being followed for subcontracting?

[Joëlle Paquette]

Indigenous Services Canada is responsible for the PSIB. They are responsible for the definition, so the companies they have in their directory will follow it. The subcontractor—the 33%—is still in their purview to investigate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Whether they are following the rules or not, Indigenous Services and PSPC would not be aware.

[Joëlle Paquette]

That's correct.