Government Operations Committee on Nov. 19th, 2024

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

There was nothing that covered her previously having said that the head of mission was dissatisfied with his residence and was looking for a change, or that he'd been instrumental in selecting the new place. There was no change in the verbiage that she'd used in that briefing note.

[Robin Dubeau]

We took the July 25 opportunity to add more information and clarify because the message that came out on June 14, which I provided, was done very quickly and tried to summarize it as much as possible. On the 25th there were more details in the message.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. Since we're going back and forth about a lot of dates, could both of you gentlemen please table for the committee any specific correspondence on this, surrounding those two dates, between you and Ms. Nicholson? Would you be comfortable providing that to the committee?

[Robin Dubeau]

We can go back and...but I believe that the correspondence would be included in the package that has already been submitted to the committee.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. It looks like Ms. Nicholson shared the truth on June 17 in her email, and then there was interaction with the minister's office, then this committee sent for Mr. Clark as part of our investigation, then she issued a correction and then her story changed from the truth to what she offered later. The chronology, the path...it appears like that direction came from the property branch.

Gentlemen, you're the subject matter experts. Who in Minister Joly's office did you coordinate with in making those corrections, those clarifications that she mentioned in the July email?

[Robin Dubeau]

As I explained, the message on June 14 was to provide information on that transaction. On June 25 we provided more information. I did not coordinate directly with the minister's office. I was in contact with Ms. Nicholson, who's the chief of staff of the deputy minister associate.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Did you have any interaction with anyone in the minister's office?

[Robin Dubeau]

No, I didn't have any interaction with the minister's office.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Between June 14 and July 25, you had no interaction with the minister's office.

[Robin Dubeau]

No.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

In the original summary that you said you provided to Ms. Nicholson, you said Mr. Clark was instrumental.

Was that the information you provided to her and was issued hastily, or was that something she surmised on her own?

[Robin Dubeau]

That information is not contained in what I provided.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

She described herself as merely “an air traffic controller”. She was just taking bits of information out of the air and landing them on a piece of paper.

If not from you—the responsible individual and subject matter expert—where would she have gleaned that from?

[Robin Dubeau]

I think Ms. Nicholson testified to say that was a misstatement she put in her email. She expressed that her intent was to convey that the head of mission was aware of the situation and didn't object.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Sir, she said you provided her with the summary.

[Robin Dubeau]

I provided Ms. Nicholson with a summary of the transaction. There was no mention of Mr. Clark being instrumental.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That is our time, gentlemen.

We'll go to Mr. Sousa for six minutes.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me get this right. The consul general in New York is one of the most important missions we have regarding our relationship with the United States, and the official residence is home to one of Canada's most senior diplomats. Is that right? Concerns about the condition of the official residence were first raised in 2014. Furthermore, the new official residence, as I understand it, now has one of the lowest costs per square foot. It cuts monthly costs in half, with savings of about $115,000 a year. It represents $7.4 million in savings to Canadians, as a consequence of a sale from the old residence to the new residence.

Here we have a senior diplomatic mission in the United States, which all provinces use and many Canadians have taken advantage of in trade negotiations and discussions. In fact, I understand that the head of the mission's residence supports diplomacy and trade, and has hosted over 50 official functions in the last two years, including business events, round table discussions, seminars and briefings. It's a very active residence in regard to the work it does with our counterparts and partners in the United States.

The question now before us is this: Was the minister involved in the decision to sell the old official residence and purchase the new residence? Did that happen? Was the minister involved in those decisions?

[Robin Dubeau]

No, the minister was not involved in that decision.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Is it normal, however, to have the tenant of a residence be aware of what is taking place?

[Robin Dubeau]

It's absolutely part of the process to make sure the tenant is aware of the plan.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Would you ask the tenant about the status of issues that are ongoing and about their ability to make that move?

[Robin Dubeau]

In building a statement of requirements, we solicit input from the mission administration, which may include some—

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Therefore, regardless of the semantics being passed around here today, there's nothing untoward about having that discussion. Is that correct?

[Robin Dubeau]

That's correct.