Government Operations Committee on April 29th, 2022

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC)), Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I call the meeting to order.

Greetings, everybody, and welcome.

It's so nice to hear other people enjoying the nice weather and seeing that around. If you want to come to Saskatchewan, you're welcome to deal with the snow that we're dealing with there, but that's okay; we'll leave that alone.

Welcome to meeting number 16 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Today we will hear from the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and officials regarding the main estimates 2022-23, the departmental plans and her mandate letter.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely by using the Zoom application.

Regarding the speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they're participating virtually or here in person.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all participants of this meeting that taking screenshots or photos of your screen is not permitted.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from public health authorities, as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on October 19, 2021, and to remain healthy and safe, the following are recommended for all those attending the meeting in person.

Anyone with symptoms should participate by Zoom and not attend the meeting in person. Everyone must maintain two-metre physical distancing whether seated or standing. Everyone must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is recommended in the strongest possible terms that members wear their mask at all times, including when seated. Non-medical masks, which provide better clarity over cloth masks, are available in the room.

Everyone present must maintain proper hand hygiene using the hand sanitizer at the room entrance. Committee rooms are cleaned before and after each meeting, but to help us maintain this, we encourage everybody to clean the surfaces such as their desks, their chair and their microphone with the provided disinfectant wipes when vacating or taking a seat.

As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting. I thank members in advance for their co-operation.

I thank those who have come today for dealing with the brief technical issues we have had. I appreciate your bearing with us. It's nice to have everybody here officially. That's why it's helpful if people can show up at least five or 10 minutes early so we can do that and start on time.

With that said, I would like to welcome the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and her colleagues. I would invite the minister to make her opening statement.

Go ahead, please.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Minister of Public Services and Procurement]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, committee members, and thanks for inviting me to appear before you today.

Let me begin by acknowledging that I'm participating from my home town of Hamilton, which is located on the traditional territory of the Haudenosaunee and Anishinabe peoples.

With me from PSPC are my deputy minister Paul Thompson and associate deputy minister Arianne Reza, as well as other department officials.

From SSC, there is president Sony Perron and assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer Samantha Hazen, as well as other department officials.

I am pleased to be here for the first time as Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Minister responsible for Shared Services Canada to discuss my mandate letter as well as the fiscal year's main estimates and departmental plans for both PSPC and SSC.

I also want to take a moment to thank the committee and its members for being so accommodating and agreeing to reschedule my appearance after my medical issue that forced me to cancel the previously scheduled meeting. You have also offered your get-well wishes to me through my parliamentary secretary, and I'm deeply grateful for that.

Mr. Chair, PSPC has a wide-ranging mandate and touches on many aspects of daily and long-term government operations. As a common service provider, the department works to support the whole of government as it serves Canadians, from procurement to managing government buildings to being the pay and pension administrator for the public service and more.

Similarly, SSC delivers a wide array of IT services to government organizations so that they in turn are positioned to deliver digital programs and services that meet the needs of Canadians.

The array of commitments I have been asked to deliver on are complex, multi-year and often multi-mandate endeavours. Many of these priorities build on work led by my predecessors, and I'm honoured to continue delivering these important commitments for the benefit of all Canadians.

Let me begin by speaking about the important role that PSPC continues to play to support Canada's ongoing response to the pandemic.

While our aggressive procurement approach has resulted in a secure supply of vaccines and PPE, there is still more to do. Rapid tests and therapeutics are in high demand across the globe, and we are working to ensure we have enough supply of those commodities. We will continue working closely with our public health counterparts to secure whatever is needed as we make our way to the other side of this pandemic.

To date, Canada has procured and received 604 million rapid antigen tests, 598 million of which have been distributed to provinces and territories. We have contracts for nine different therapeutic treatments, giving us access to 1.7 million treatment courses.

Canada has contracts in place with the world's leading vaccine suppliers for all vaccines currently approved by Health Canada, as well as access to supplies of future formulations that will protect us against variants. Today the Prime Minister announced the next steps in assuring that Canada has a secure domestic supply of the latest vaccines through an agreement with Moderna to set up a manufacturing facility in the Montreal region. Tens of millions of N95 respirators are being produced in Canada every month, thanks to our long-term contracts with Medicom and 3M.

In short, Mr. Chair, PSPC and our whole team continue to deliver for Canada and Canadians as we work to finish the fight against COVID-19.

At the same time, another crisis has emerged on the world stage, requiring a global response. We have all witnessed the horrors unfolding in Ukraine following Russia's unprovoked and unjustified attack on that sovereign nation.

Now more than at any time since the Second World War, it is essential for all democratic nations to stand united and unfaltering in our support of Ukrainian sovereignty. We are working with our partners in government and abroad to facilitate and provide the necessary logistics in order to support the Government of Ukraine as well as the people of Ukraine, both for those who are staying to fight and for those who are fleeing the horrific violence.

Additionally, when it comes to protecting Canadians, our government is dedicated to ensuring that the Canadian Armed Forces have what they need to deliver on commitments at home and abroad. We continue with ongoing delivery of defence procurements. That includes the purchase of new fighter jets for the Royal Canadian Air Force. Following a rigorous evaluation of the proposals, the government has entered into the finalization phase of the process with the United States and Lockheed Martin. We are on track to reach an agreement later this year with delivery of the aircraft as early as 2025.

We also continue to work with our partners to renew the fleets of the Canadian Coast Guard and the Royal Canadian Navy. Shipbuilding involves a complex and challenging process and work, and we always seek to make improvements so that we can meet the objectives of the national shipbuilding strategy.

Procurement is an important part of my mandate. It's also a powerful lever that we will be using to drive just and inclusive economic prosperity. I’m very happy to say that we are making progress in this regard. For example, as we continue to walk the path of reconciliation, we are leading the implementation of a requirement to ensure that a minimum of 5% of the value of federal contracts is held by businesses led by indigenous peoples—first nations, Inuit and Métis.

More broadly, my department has launched a supplier diversity action plan that includes pilot projects to increase the participation of under-represented groups in federal procurement. For example, our Black business procurement pilot project led to the government awarding a series of contracts, and we received important feedback from the community about the process. Pilot projects such as this one are guiding changes to policies and processes that will help remove barriers to full participation in procurement for all suppliers.

Mr. Chair, in addition to levelling the playing field for under-represented businesses, we are doing our part to tackle forced labour. This is a concerning reality internationally, and we will support the Minister of Labour in introducing and implementing legislation that keeps our supply chains free of human rights abuses. In the meantime, we have introduced clauses in our contracts that place the onus on suppliers to keep their supply chains free of forced labour. Those that fail to do so will have their contracts terminated.

The department has other important work under way, including the renovation and rehabilitation of the parliamentary precinct. This is highly complex, multi-decade work that will continue to honour our history while ensuring that these iconic buildings meet the needs of a 21st century Parliament.

My department also continues to support environmental sustainability in government operations. As an example, with our energy services acquisition program we are modernizing the district energy system that heats and cools 80 buildings in the national capital region. We have already cut greenhouse gas emissions by 57% from the baseline year of 2005, and we are on track to meet our goal of being net zero by 2030.

Mr. Chair, public servants have worked tirelessly to support these and so many other government efforts. Like all workers, they deserve to be paid accurately and on time. This remains a top priority, and we continue our efforts to resolve the backlog of pay transactions and stabilize pay operations. Concurrently, Shared Services Canada is advancing work on the next-generation human resources and pay solution, one that is flexible, modern and integrated.

Like PSPC, Shared Services Canada plays a vital role in supporting government operations. Of note, SSC is working on several fronts to provide public servants with modern tools and updated government IT systems and to deliver digital services to Canadians that are secure, reliable and easy to use at any time from any device. I would also note that throughout the pandemic, SSC has adapted to new realities—for example, by launching new online collaboration tools for public servants working from home.

Similar to PSPC, SSC will continue to advance government-wide initiatives to increase the diversity of bidders so that more companies have access to government IT contract opportunities.

Mr. Chair, I have touched upon just a fraction of the important work of PSPC and SSC as outlined in each departmental plan and in my mandate letter. To deliver on our mandate and help PSPC continue to deliver on these priorities this fiscal year, we are requesting just over $4.6 billion in the 2022-23 main estimates. As for SSC, we are requesting that the department’s reference levels increase by $710.8 million to $2.6 billion.

I'm happy to take your questions regarding the main estimates, departmental plans and my mandate letter.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

We are so pleased to see you here and so pleased to see that your emergency has been resolved and you have come out very well. Hopefully our questions will not be as drilling as what you—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

—have had to deal with.

With that said, we will start our questions with Mr. Paul-Hus for six minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister. This is your first appearance before our committee in your current position. I welcome you.

My first question is about the aircraft. As you know, in 2015, Mr. Trudeau said that buying the F‑35 was out of the question. Suddenly, on the morning of Monday, March 28, you were told that you were holding a press conference to announce that the government is moving forward on the F‑35.

Were there any discussions on this subject within cabinet before arriving at this decision or were you taken by surprise?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

First of all, let me say that in 2016 we made the commitment that we were going to purchase 88 fighter jets. That was a commitment that was made in 2016, and we reached another milestone recently with entering into the finalization stage with Lockheed Martin on this very important procurement.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay, but I wanted to know if, prior to the announcement, there were any discussions that led to the decision to go ahead with the F‑35 and if you were involved in those discussions. If so, was it mentioned that if there were problems in the negotiations, the Gripen aircraft would be chosen instead?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

What I'd say in response to that, Mr. Paul-Hus, is that you know that I can't speak about anything that was spoken about in cabinet; that would be a violation or a breach of cabinet confidence.

What I will say is that this process was extremely important to our government. It was important to get this right, and every step of the way we wanted to ensure that we had an open and competitive process. We were happy to see three bidders come in, and we are delighted that now we have reached the finalization stage with Lockheed Martin.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Just on the competitive process, I'd like to know why the Boeing Super Hornet was left out of the race.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I would first say with respect to the process that I have been engaged throughout this process, and I am confident in the process and pleased with the process.

With respect to the qualification of bidders, what I can say is that we can't get into details with respect to that aspect, but every bidder had the opportunity to meet the requirements and the mandates that were placed before them, and the process unfolded in that manner.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

From what I've heard, the Boeing Super Hornet was ruled out because its safety and information transmission capabilities did not meet Canadian criteria. Yet this aircraft is used by the US Navy. So I have a hard time understanding that this is the real reason. I wonder if there is not something else behind this decision.

Let's talk about something else. In the fall of 2020, about a year and a half ago, I asked your predecessor, Ms. Anand, when Davie Shipbuilding would be recognized as the third shipyard in the national shipbuilding strategy. Fifteen months later, we still have no news.

Can you tell us more today, especially since your mandate letter mentions it?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

First I just want to reaffirm, MP Paul-Hus, that I am very confident in the process on the procurement of the fighter jets, and I think the procurement process was a necessary one. It was rigorous, and at the end of the day, we're going to end up with the best plane at the best price with the greatest economic benefit for Canadians. I truly believe that and I am happy about the process.

With respect to the shipbuilding strategy, I'm very pleased with this strategy, and I know that with respect to the—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

The question is more about the incorporation of Davie into the strategy. Ms. Anand said in the fall of 2020 that this was coming, but we still haven't heard anything. Will it be soon?

The problem is that the government announced the construction of two polar icebreakers and said that Seaspan Shipyards and Davie Shipbuilding would each build one. However, until Davie is accepted as a partner in the national shipbuilding strategy, nothing will happen.

I'd like an update on that, please.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Yes, it's an important question, and I'm happy to provide an update.

What I will say is that we are working very closely with Davie on the qualification to be the third shipyard. We are engaging with them on an ongoing basis, working with them every step of the way. We know that Davie is a strong, reliable partner and is doing significant work to help the government deliver for Canadians.

We look forward to continuing to work with Davie in this process and we will see the process through, but the engagement is constant, and both parties are working very hard together to get through this process.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That's great, thank you.

Last Tuesday, the committee received your colleague Ms. Fortier, the President of the Treasury Board. I asked her a question about a report by the parliamentary budget officer that showed $15 billion in spending on military procurement that was not in the budget. No one could explain what it was. Ms. Fortier didn't really know, and the response from one of the officials with her was not clear either. I think the parliamentary budget officer knows the workings of the budget cycles better than we do. We are still in a grey area.

At the Department of Public Services and Procurement, do you know if there are any contracts or amounts that have been planned for military procurement, but that have not yet been included in the budget?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Let me just say that on defence, we're going to continue to work to procure what is asked of us from the Department of National Defence. However, I'm happy to pass that over to my officials to respond with respect to the specifics of the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

I apologize to the deputy minister, but due to timing, if you could provide that information in writing to the clerk, that would be appreciated.

I see that Mr. Kusmierczyk is back. We'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk for six minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it is wonderful to welcome you back to the committee. Thank you so much for your introductory remarks.

Canadians want reliable and fast access to government services online, and I would say that this has become more true during COVID than at any other time. At the same time, staff are looking for fast and reliable digital tools and platforms for collaboration across ministries and across teams as well. They're looking for software that is fast, reliable, collaborative and responsive.

In the main estimates, we see a transfer of $158.8 million from other government departments, OGD, to Shared Services Canada, SSC, for the Government of Canada information technology enterprise service model. Can you provide us with the purpose of this funding?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thanks for that important question, MP Kusmierczyk.

I agree with you in terms of ensuring that there's consistency across government. We want to make it easy and we want to be up to date in terms of the technological piece, which is what this transfer is going to do. It will help support the implementation of what is referred to as IT-ESM, the information technology enterprise service model, as an enterprise approach for managing IT services.

That gets to the point of your question. The government is implementing this to enable enterprise-focused, IT-focused decision-making, structures and processes; introduce IT service standards; enhance IT planning; and provide predictable and stable government IT infrastructure funding.

We think that this is very important, particularly at this time. The implementation of this will appropriate enterprise services to SSC, while SSC will continue to cost-recover for department-specific services.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Minister, as I understand it, this is part of SSC 3.0, the enterprise approach.

I want to ask you whether it is more internal facing, in terms of helping out officials and public servants in working together, or is this also going to help the user experience? Is that also part of this investment and this new 3.0 approach?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

My understanding is that it's more expansive, but I'm happy to turn that over to Sony to expand on that.

[Sony Perron, President, Shared Services Canada]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Chair, the work around SSC 3.0 is about creating a platform that allows public servants to work internally and effectively but also provides Canadians with the right digital tools. It's both.

When it comes to the $158 million that you referred to earlier, it's about eliminating a lot of the transactional activity between the departments. This money is not new spending; it's just that it has been consolidated. Shared Services Canada is providing the service to all of the departments without having transactions for every demand.

It will also help us to optimize around mobile phones, email, mainframe services. Mainframe is the tool that many of the large departments providing service directly to Canadians are using to process a magnitude of data. It's important. It's changing the way we are doing the service. Rather than having 40 departments doing it on their own and submitting orders, it enables SSC to provide the services in a seamless way to try to gain efficiency and continue to reinvest in the infrastructure.

We secure, we stabilize, and we make it reliable over time. We eliminate a lot of the transactions around it. We make it simple for the enterprise with the right solutions.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

That's amazing to hear, especially knowing just how complex the digital world is in government across so many ministries and across so many employees. That's terrific. I really do appreciate that.

I want to switch gears a bit from the digital infrastructure and the investments we're making in digital infrastructure to physical infrastructure.

It is my understanding, Minister, that you hold real property, a federal government file, as part of your portfolio. Can you can share with us an overview of real property that PSPC oversees and what the budget is doing to help us to green buildings?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I think it's an important question, because when we have opportunities like this to demonstrate leadership when we control buildings, we have an opportunity to move forward to demonstrate our commitment to take action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from them.

As has been mentioned in my introductory notes, this year alone we have reported a 57.6% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from our buildings as compared to the baseline in 2005-06. That is significant. We do have plans for ongoing work, and these plans are going to lead us, we estimate, to an 82% target reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by 2025 and put us in a very good position to achieve net zero by 2030 for our building portfolio.