Government Operations Committee on April 29th, 2022

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

If I understand properly, I think what you're referring to is the competitive dialogue. If we had not gone to finalization and we had gone to competitive dialogue, that would have taken an extra 10 to 12 months.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It was extending negotiations between Saab and Lockheed Martin.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. McCauley.

Minister, if you have anything further you'd like to add to that answer, please, by all means, submit that to the committee, or perhaps Mr. McCauley can ask that later in the day.

I want to emphasize to all committee members that the minister has agreed to be with us for the full two hours, and we really appreciate her agreeing to that.

We'll now go to Mr. Bains for five minutes.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister. It's great to see you here today.

It was great to see that you gave so much attention to British Columbia last week. You visited Vancouver, Richmond, and the Seaspan shipyard. You know how important that is to our marine sector on the west coast.

I'm wondering if you had any new ideas from this visit that could help improve the national shipbuilding strategy.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

First and foremost, MP Bains, it was absolutely fantastic to visit Seaspan as one of our partners. As a woman who is a daughter of a steelworker and grew up in a steel town, it was remarkable to see what is happening at that shipyard.

I know that the shipbuilding business is not an easy one, but I'm so proud of the innovation of the work and the economic benefits and job creation that the national shipbuilding strategy is contributing. I was able to see that first-hand.

In addition to that, I was able to see the other benefits that are being realized by other businesses across the country. I had the opportunity to visit OSI as well, and to see that OSI now has contracts with other shipbuilding companies around the world because it got its start from the national shipbuilding strategy. It is successful. It had to hire more employees. The demand for employees is skyrocketing.

It was a fantastic visit, and it really helped me appreciate what an amazing endeavour has been undertaken by our shipyards. To see it first-hand was really remarkable.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you for that.

Can you tell us a bit about how you and your team work with these shipyards to develop delivery schedules? What oversights do you have once the ships are being built? What's your involvement in that process?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

That's an important question, and there have been challenges. I recognize and understand that. COVID has presented significant challenges, for example, with respect to supply chains and labour shortages. There have been issues that have been challenging. I recognize that, but my department is working very closely with the shipyards.

I would ask Simon to weigh in here to talk a bit about the day-to-day work that the department is doing with the shipbuilders, because I think it's important.

[Simon Page]

Thank you, Minister.

There are a few things we are doing with the shipyards. We do these things on a very continuous basis through the governance that we have established with those shipyards, through the umbrella agreements, and through our contracts that we manage with them.

One of the key ones I would like to highlight is the earned value management discipline, the EVM, that we have instilled within the national shipbuilding strategy enterprise, not only with the Vancouver shipyard but also with other shipyards. This earned value management discipline enables us to tie together some key data from a scope, schedule, and cost point of view and monitor in real time the progress of our projects. We do this for every project and implementation. We also want to do this for all upcoming projects, eventually improve our tools and apply it across the entire NSS, the national shipbuilding strategy.

We are looking at specific data from workforce management at the Vancouver shipyard. As highlighted by our minister, labour in our shipyards right now, with COVID's impact, is difficult to manage. We're trying to have a very granular look at what's going on from the workforce point of view within the shipyards and how it impacts each one of our projects.

I will also mention that we keep an eye on very high-level measures and metrics with, for instance, the joint support ships. We look at the number of blocks assembled. We look at specific gates, engine loadouts, the number of pipes that are assembled, the cables that are pulled and things like that. On top of the EVM, it gives us a full, comprehensive appreciation of where the project stands.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Page.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola again, for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Tassi, I'm going to come back to Canada Post.

Last year alone, the federal government signed contracts totalling $24.6 million with Amazon Web Services, which is about $2.4 million more than the annual amount it invests in Canada Post. That's not counting other contracts from 2011 to 2020 and those with the Canada Border Services Agency.

Is it normal for the federal government and its agencies to do business with American companies instead of a Crown corporation? Doesn't this send the message that the Crown corporation is not even competitive enough to serve the government properly?

Is this not a clear sign that it is time to invest at home to provide services to our citizens?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you for that question. I'm pleased that we've had the opportunity to come back to it, because I did want time to respond to it.

First and foremost, let me say that we want to work with Canada Post to do everything we can to ensure that Canada Post succeeds at being revenue neutral and that they're able to operate in a self-sustaining way. We want to work closely with them in order to get them to that place. We of course want to be collaborative and work together, because we know that Canadians rely on Canada Post services. That's why it's important that we gather the information and do the other things that we are doing.

With respect to your specific question, we did contract at the beginning of COVID. We put a contract in place, but it wasn't for delivery; it was to access the software that Amazon had in order to help distribute the life-saving PPE to Canadians across the country.

There was a small amount of usage, but this is the most important point: It was not-for-profit pricing. This was based on a cost-recovery basis. It wasn't a service that Canada Post could supply. It was actually the software that Amazon had, so that we could get life-saving PPE to places as quickly as we could.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, this government dealt with the momentous and urgent task of procuring COVID-19 vaccines for Canadians. That work has saved lives.

There's now a parallel epidemic going on in this country that has not received the same level of attention and urgency. That's the toxic drug crisis, which is resulting in the deaths of approximately 20 Canadians a day. What will you do to procure a safer supply of controlled substances to stem the tide of toxic drug poisonings that have left too many Canadians without their loved ones?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

First, let me say, MP Johns, how much I appreciate your advocacy in this area. I know that you're very passionate and you're working very hard, and I agree with what you are trying to achieve at the end of the day.

Although this may be a bit outside of procurement, I want to say that we recognize that problematic substance use is a health issue. We're working in other areas. We are diverting people who use drugs away from the criminal justice system towards supportive and trusted relationships in health and social services. In budget 2022, we invested an additional $100 million. That's now over $800 million that we've committed to support community-led harm reduction, treatment and prevention projects since 2015. We're going to continue to do what we can to save lives to end this national public health crisis—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, I'm urging you to take this on, and wholeheartedly. A hundred million dollars over three years for treatment, recovery, safe supply, education and prevention isn't even close to adequate when we've lost over 27,000 lives in this country under your government's watch. This is a health and human rights issue, Minister. I'm asking you to take this on and to help lead with it.

Obviously, today Moderna has applied to Health Canada for approval for a COVID-19 vaccine for children aged six months to six years old. Currently children under five years have no access to vaccines. Since the onset of omicron, more young children have been hospitalized than in the previous waves of the pandemic, and the long-term impacts of COVID infections are clear.

Now, with the sixth wave and the removal of most public health measures, many parents and caregivers are feeling isolated and are understandably eager to get their children vaccinated. Can you confirm that the government has secured the doses needed to vaccinate children under five years old and outline how quickly these vaccines will be distributed to the provinces upon approval?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thanks for that important question.

For clarification, the $100 million in this budget was in addition to the $700 million previously committed since 2015, so the total is $800 million. I appreciate your passion and I agree with you that we have to continue to do whatever we can to combat this opioid crisis.

In terms of your question on Moderna—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Minister, I apologize for interrupting you again. Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I have to move on.

We'll now go to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister Tassi.

This is the first question I have for you today. In your mandate letter, the National Capital Commission is under your purview. It's in your letter. I wonder if you can give us an update on when Centre Block will be completed. What year will that be? What will the final cost be to taxpayers when it's completed?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

With respect to the specifics of that, the costing for Centre Block right now is $4.5 billion to $5 billion. I'm very happy to say that the project is currently on time and on budget, and I hope that it continues.

With respect to the completion date, I will turn that over to my officials because I would prefer they give the exact dates so that I don't misrepresent them.

[Paul Thompson, Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you for the question.

There is a very extensive engagement process with parliamentarians that has the target dates for each element of the project. The block two redevelopment, for example, just went through a design competition. There is a timeline associated with that.

There is the extensive work that's going on—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I know that, but can you give me a date when parliamentarians will be back in Centre Block?

[Paul Thompson]

That date is available. I don't have it at my fingertips, unfortunately. I'll have to get back to you in writing.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Wojo is on. He's got it.

[Wojciech Zielonka, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Administration Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

I believe that Centre Block is supposed to be done in 2030-2031. The handover of Centre Block is going to be a year later. There is a transition period, with all of the moving in and everything that happens during that interim window.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks.

Minister Tassi, I get comments of outrage from my constituents all the time. They're not toward you, but toward Harrington Lake and the costs associated with fixing up the Prime Minister's second or third property on Harrington Lake. It's the $11.7 million that was spent and this $750,000 kitchen that have my constituents pretty hot.

I understand that some of it is for sprinkler systems, but how can it be that a renovation to that place is almost $12 million, in addition to a brand new one built right beside it just a few years ago? What are we doing with all these properties and why is it costing the taxpayers so much for vacation properties?