Government Operations Committee on April 29th, 2022

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Those are absolutely exceptional numbers, Minister. Thank you so much for your leadership on the greening government side of things.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have? I do have a follow-up question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you. The clock just went. I appreciate that, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister.

As usual, I have a series of questions, but I only have six minutes.

In your mandate letter, it is mentioned that your department must continue to promote the diversity of bidders for public contracts, which is an excellent thing. I will always support positive discrimination.

This being said, can you assure us that it is and will always be positive discrimination, not exclusion?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thanks, MP Vignola.

I think this is an important item in my mandate in my role as minister of PSPC and Shared Services Canada. I think we have real opportunities here, and significant work is under way to ensure that we open up diversity to those who are trying to secure procurement contracts with the government—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We agree on that, but I just want to make sure there's no exclusion. We agree that it is important that business owners from diverse groups have confidence in their ability and know that they will be accepted. The openness to positive discrimination brings this confidence. However, I want to make sure that there is no exclusion in the process and that the criteria are met for everyone.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Just so that I am clear on the question—and I agree with you with respect to ensuring that this process is open and fair and brings down barriers—are you asking if there's going to be a specific exclusion for a certain type of business to procure a contract? Is that the question you're asking, that a specific exclusion would exist in the policy?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's right. I just want to make sure that no one, anywhere, is going to discriminate and that the best bidder gets the contract, no matter what company it is and who owns it.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

It's not my intention to have a situation of a specific exclusion. I mean, the only time a company would be excluded is if in fact the integrity regime isn't satisfied, or they, through their own behaviour, have undertaken actions or initiatives that have sort of taken them out of the qualification process, but not a specific exclusion.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Recently, $109 million was reinvested in the Phoenix payroll system. I understand that some of the known problems with Phoenix are caused by the fact that there are many collective agreements, that's obvious. We also know that there are always thousands of transactions every month to try to fix the problems that occur with each paycheck as well as past problems.

That said, how much more money do you think will have to be invested in Phoenix until ProGen, the next generation HR and payroll system, is finally ready?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Let me say that I agree with you in terms of your point that it's important that we resolve this issue. I will say that our government is committed to resolving it. We are doing everything we can to ensure that employees are paid on time and paid accurately, and we are making progress in terms of the numbers. As of March 30, the backlog has been reduced by 64%—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes, I am aware of these figures, they are interesting, and it is indeed important to reduce the backlog. However, do you think we will have to invest more money in Phoenix, like the $109 million invested recently, until we have a solution that works? So far, in the trials, the ProGen system hasn't been working so well.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

What I would say is that that, number one, we are going to make the investments needed in order to ensure that the employees are paid on time and accurately. Second, we're going to continue the exploratory phase with respect to NextGen and the pay solutions and the human resource piece, because we have to get this right. We can't stop now. We have to continue.

It's my commitment that we're going to continue to move forward, and whatever investments are required in order to get this right, we want to make those investments, because we can't have public servants who don't have their pay and therefore can't put food on the table.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Indeed, public servants deserve to be paid. We agree on that.

Your mandate letter also concerns Canada Post. From one year to the next, the government invests approximately $22,210,000 in Canada Post, if I remember correctly. That said, in recent years, the government has also invested in Amazon Web Services, FedEx, and UPS, companies that compete directly with Canada Post. To be profitable, Canada Post needs to modernize. We've talked about this before. While the crown corporation has invested and continues to invest in modernization, it does not have the same resources as private companies.

Does the government intend to give Canada Post a boost so that it can complete its modernization and compete with the big American companies?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Minister, I apologize for interrupting. It was a great question, but the unfortunate part is that we don't have time for an answer. If you feel that you can provide an answer to the committee in writing, it would be appreciated.

We will now go to Mr. Johns for six minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you for being here today. I'm glad you're feeling better.

Late last year, the government—the Privy Council Office—conducted polling regarding Canada Post that raised the possibility of restructuring and of cuts to services and jobs. The poll asked about closing rural post offices, moving remaining door-to-door home deliveries to community mailboxes, reducing the frequency of mail delivery and using more automation to replace Canada Post workers.

News of this polling, as you can imagine, Minister, was understandably concerning for postal workers and for Canadians who rely on Canada Post. The poll was conducted prior to the release of your mandate letter, which asked you to “ensure that Canada Post provides the high-quality service that Canadians expect at a reasonable price and better reaches Canadians in rural and remote areas.”

Who commissioned this polling and why was it done?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

That's an excellent question, MP Johns, and I'm happy to have the opportunity to speak about it.

Look, this polling...and you're absolutely right about my mandate letter. I totally understand that. We want to ensure that we work with Canada Post to get them to a place where they are self-sustaining. That's the goal.

We recognize how important Canadians believe Canada Post is in terms of the services they provide. I've had stories about medicines during COVID that needed to be delivered, and the Canada Post workers continued to make those deliveries, so there's great gratitude to Canada Post and their workers.

With respect to the survey specifically, let me say this. It's critical for us to understand where Canadians are with respect to their relationship with Canada Post. We know that COVID-19 has changed many things, and it's critical as we move forward, as we make decisions and work with Canada Post, that those decisions are based on an understanding of what Canadians' views are with respect to their relationship with Canada Post. That information is information that is important.

I've had meetings with Canada Post as well as CUPW, and if you have any information that you want to share with me, please provide it, because the government wants to be armed with all that information so that we can make the right decisions with respect to guidance with Canada Post and working with them.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, I don't think this is.... You just cited the sacrifice of Canada Post workers through COVID to ensure that Canadians stayed safe. This isn't the way to reward them, by asking questions that are leading. Some of the questions were actually false information, as you are well aware, about the structure of Canada Post, such as that it's a stand-alone corporation. I have deep concerns around that.

I want to know what the plans are for Canada Post from your government and whether you will be transparent with Canadians and postal workers about those plans.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

First and foremost, let me say that there was no intention to mislead. If there was any misleading in that, it was not the intention of the survey.

I totally agree with you. We are grateful to those postal workers who worked through COVID and who took measures to keep Canadians safe as they delivered parcels and mail. I have great respect and gratitude for that service.

My focus here is in understanding how strongly Canadians feel about this. We recognize that the postal service is important to them. We want to be responsible in gathering information so that as we work with Canada Post moving forward, we're working in a way that lines up with our response to the desires and priorities of Canadians.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay, Minister; I appreciate it.

There were promises made in 2015 to restore mail service delivery that haven't happened. I want to talk about the future.

I want to talk about the record profits of the big banks in this country. Communities across this country have seen branches being closed by those same banks that have had record profits, especially in rural and remote communities.

Many indigenous communities are underserved, leaving residents without access to financial services or relying on predatory payday lenders or businesses that gouge them when they want to cash their cheques. Most indigenous communities, as you know, have no access to a bank branch, especially in Nunavut, where it's a huge issue. This contributes to systemic inequities.

Postal banking could help Canadians access more affordable, quality banking services where none are currently available. Your pilot tests have been very positive. The Canadian postal workers union supports postal banking, and the revenue generated could help support Canada Post's other services.

Will you work with Canada Post, and us, to begin developing postal banking for Canada, as they've done in Australia? It actually shows profit there.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I know that postal banking has been talked about for a long time. That conversation has been ongoing since I was elected in 2015. We are providing pilots in order to get the information so that we can be successful as we move forward. We're doing pilots with postal banking. We're also doing pilots with setting up a hub.

You speak about indigenous communities and the services that are needed, so my commitment—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, can we get a commitment from you that you're going to further this? This is a really key and important aspect for reconciliation through Canada Post and for your department. This is an opportunity.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Canada Post, as you know, is an independent Crown corporation. We are going to work with Canada Post as they move forward. We are going to take all of the information we've received from Canadians. We are going to take the results of the pilots we are running in order to work with Canada Post to bring them back to being self-sustaining and, who knows, to maybe even making a profit in what they are doing.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

They want to know. Those communities that are underserved want to know that you're committed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Johns, and thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to our second round, and we will start with five minutes with Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, welcome to OGGO.

With regard to the F-35, if we sign the contract today, when would we start seeing delivery for the RCAF?