Evidence of meeting #160 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
You said, “in the beginning,” but we’ve been waiting for this new system since 2010, for 14 years. We’re in 2024.
Liberal
Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC
The new system has been in place for just a few weeks. In spite of all the efforts made, there are a few problems with the system’s reliability and clarity, but they are being solved on a case-by-case basis. People on the ground also have concerns and questions, because it is a new system they have to get used to.
The response time for questions about it is not good enough yet. We therefore have to invest more there. We know that employees are learning how it works. There were indeed many inquiries during the first weeks, and that is absolutely important. About 5 million declarations were processed in the last few weeks. The system has to be able to meet the demand.
If you like, I can also ask officials to provide you with more details.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
I accept, because in one month, a system that cost $500 million experienced 22 outages that lasted several hours. That is unacceptable to most people.
Liberal
Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC
Mr. Jones, even if this issue isn't entirely in your bailiwick and is mainly the responsibility of the Canada Border Services Agency, be as clear as possible on how we're dealing with this issue.
Scott Jones President, Shared Services Canada
Thank you very much.
The system that was replaced was 36 years old. Having an extremely old system was a big risk for Shared Services Canada. This has greatly helped to reduce the risk to the infrastructure.
In terms of operational systems, our partners at the Canada Border Services Agency will be able to answer you on that. At Shared Services Canada, we're providing ongoing support to the agency to maintain and get the system back up and running. However, I don't know the details of the work the contractor has done on the system.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you.
Of the $841 million you're requesting for these supplementary estimates, $391 million, or 46%, will go to subcontractors. Your government has made a commitment to reduce reliance on external services, yet you continue to rely heavily on subcontractors, on external services.
How do you justify the fact that 46% of the funds go to subcontractors? That's still $391 million.
Liberal
Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC
You expressed that concern very well. We know it was necessary during the COVID‑19 pandemic years. That dependency is now too great, and we've reduced it quickly. This year, we've reduced it by 15%, but we'll need to do more in the coming months and years.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, gentlemen.
We'll go over to Mrs. Kusie for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Mr. Minister. Thank you for being with us here at our committee this morning. I appreciate that.
Minister, have any more companies been found committing fraud against the government? Last time you were here, in November, the number was seven. What is that number today, please?
Liberal
Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC
Thank you very much for the question.
I'm very pleased that we're able to talk about the procurement system, because it plays a major role for Canada, workers and businesses. It's also very important for the Canadian government. For such a system—
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
How many are there, please? I'm waiting for you to give me the exact number. You're the minister, so I think you need to know that number. How many are there, please?
Liberal
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Answer quickly because I have a lot of questions. What is the number, please?
Conservative
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Mr. Chair, Standing Order 18 clearly identifies the respect we're supposed to afford other members of our House, including ministers. I would just remind Mrs. Kusie not to yell.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I appreciate that. Respect goes both ways. There was a very clear question. I think taxpayers and MPs deserve a very clear answer.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
It's more about the yelling at the minister than the question.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm sure Mrs. Kusie will take that under advisement.
Continue, Mrs. Kusie.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
It is a very clear question, Minister: How many cases of fraud? Please, tell Canadians the number.
Do you know the number?
Liberal
Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC
If I understood your question correctly, there are seven cases. Three of them were announced last spring, one was added in July, and three more have been added in recent weeks.
Conservative
Liberal
Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC
Public servants, as you suggest and as it is important to do, continue their integrity work. It's a job that's easier now, with the e‑procurement system and the sharing of information—
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay, thank you.
What is the value of the seven fraud contracts, please?