Government Operations Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[Alex Benay]

That's right. They're setting the direction and testing every step, and then we seek their feedback before deploying.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Could somebody talk about the public service procurement requesting $619 million in capital expenditures to allow departments to continue implementing projects, such as some of the developments that we're seeing here at Centre Block and the scope of those projects?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid there's no time, apart from about five seconds, left for a response. Perhaps you can provide it in writing to the committee.

We're going to go to Mrs. Vignola, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Benay, I'd like to get some clarification on the Phoenix pay system. It was purchased under the Conservative government, but it was put into service under the Liberal government. Is that correct?

[Alex Benay]

Depending on the dates, that's correct, yes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We're at a few billion dollars' worth of spending on this system.

What is the status of the NextGen HR and Pay initiative or the Dayforce solution? We're asking for $102 million, but, so far, how many millions of dollars has the total cost been for the tests, analysis and design of this tool?

[Alex Benay]

As for the NextGen HR and Pay initiative, we've reached $335 million since 2018, $282 million of which comes from various budgets and approximately $52 or $53 million from an internal reprofiling of funds. Of that total amount, $180 million was allocated to employee salaries, training and so on. The rest went to the three vendors that qualified on the final list.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Do these three suppliers talk to each other or do they each do their own part and, at some point, the pieces get glued together? Will there be any interaction between the three before we get to the final product?

[Alex Benay]

At the moment, the three don't necessarily talk to each other. As for us, we expect the federal solution, that is to say the mother solution or the main solution, namely, Dayforce, if this year's work continues well. The expectation is that the majority of departments will use Dayforce. Some departments will use other systems, but we want those systems to share data. In fact, we have a pilot project in place to align the three systems. Having said that, I just want to reiterate that our goal is for much of the Government of Canada to use the same HR system and pay.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We're going to make sure there aren't any complications like the ones we saw at the launch of ArriveCAN, where suppliers weren't talking to each other. That required constant adjustments.

[Alex Benay]

Exactly. The first two departments we're going to start with are going to use Dayforce, so the same solution.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Benay.

Ms. Reza, Public Services and Procurement Canada is requesting, as part of its budget, $391.5 million for professional and special services, and $42.6 million for staff, so just over nine times less for staff than for special services. What are those special services, and why can't they be provided in-house?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for the question.

In the supplementary estimates, most of the funding is allocated to capital projects.

Most of that is buildings and ESAP, energy. Those projects where professional services are involved are technical third party engineering, construction and audit—things that the government doesn't do. The construction sector is heavily involved.

Most of them are projects that are being completed in the nation's capital.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Of the $391.5 million allocated for these projects that are ongoing, is there an amount set aside for consultants or is it all for construction companies or other companies?

[Arianne Reza]

I will check, but that amount is allocated in large part to suppliers in construction, engineering and so on. There may be some professional services that will be called upon, but I don't know if there's a breakdown of all the services.

I'll turn to Mark Quinlan, who may be able to tell you more about that.

[Mark Quinlan, Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Services, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

No, I don't have the details, but you're absolutely right, Madam Deputy Minister.

These sums are used primarily to pay for services rendered by architects and engineers, and to pay for technical services associated with construction projects.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Ms. Reza, as you know, recently the committee received the Procurement Ombudsman. Looking at his budget, I noticed that it hadn't changed in 15 years, since his office was created, even though inflation has increased since then. Everyone's salaries have risen in the same period. The budgets of all government departments and the demands for the ombudsman's services and audits have also increased. From memory, we're now at 138% or 142% of what budgets used to be. Is there any intention of improving the budget allocated to the ombudsman and, consequently, of improving the service delivered to the people?

[Arianne Reza]

Yes, I noted that the ombudsman was here earlier this week. Also, of course, I see the funding applications. We're in the process of reviewing them, as has been mentioned. Whenever the committees ask the ombudsman to do a review, we do our best and always allocate the funds. On top of that, we do what we can to protect the budget, because it comes from the department. So it's always an opportunity to see how and where we're going to find support funds.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mrs. Vignola.

Mr. Boulerice, you have six minutes, please.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Benay, I have to ask you some questions, because I find your story unclear. With regard to the pause between going from private to public, you said you were following procedures. In your opinion, what is this period?

[Alex Benay]

What I wanted to say is that I followed the procedures as soon as I left the private sector. As I mentioned, I want to go back and look at my dates, to see if I made any mistakes or not in relation to the break period following that. As for selecting a company, it was when I left that I had a lot of discussions with the ethics commissioner's office. That's the subject I'm mentioning.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Can you provide the committee with the date you were hired by the Canadian government and the date of the last email you sent as a participant from a private company? We would very much like to have this information in order to see the chronology.

[Alex Benay]

As I mentioned, I will provide that information. I just want to make sure I have the right dates, as I don't have that on hand right now.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I understand you, but I just want us to get along and have this provided to the committee.

In the NDP, we have great concerns about what's happening right now regarding the genocide in Gaza. The House of Commons has passed a motion banning arms sales to the Netanyahu regime. What are you doing to ensure that permits for arms sales are suspended or stopped, and that no new ones are passed?