Evidence of meeting #20 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No. It doesn't seem to be public. A number that was mentioned in the testimony earlier this week was $1.5 billion for the two ships. Frankly, that's an astonishing number.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
There's nothing exactly like the AOPS, but I think another ship that was mentioned in earlier testimony is Le Commandant Charcot, which was built at the Vard shipyards in Romania and Norway. This is a polar class 2 icebreaker. It's almost exactly the same size and power as the John G. Diefenbaker. It's costing $500 million for a ship that is a luxury hotel. It's powered by LNG, so its propulsion plant, batteries and science equipment are very complicated. That's costing less, apparently, than an AOPS, which is a quarter of the size and far less complex.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Do you know what effect COVID has had on peer countries for shipbuilding? It seems to be a whole-of-government approach to use that as an excuse for everything.
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, on COVID, I really have to accept a lot of what was said by our witnesses here today. You have to be aware of the differences in a place like Nova Scotia compared to a place like Norway, which actually did a much better job of controlling COVID without shutting down as much.
I was within 48 hours of visiting Commandant Charcot when all the restrictions were put in place. She was built during the course of COVID, and I believe it had about a three-month impact on the delivery of the ship.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You talked a bit about reforming the NSS or killing it. Is it too far down the road to walk away from? Is it too far down the road to fix the NSS?
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
One of my mentors told me at a very early stage that when you're in a hole, stop digging. It's never too late. What are we cancelling at this stage?
As John Schmidt said earlier, when we were this amount of time into the frigate program in the 1980s, we were getting ships. We seem to be still at least a decade away from getting ships under the CSC.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you, Mr. Kendrick. If you have anything further that you would like to add, by all means, please submit it to the clerk and he will distribute it.
We'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk for four minutes.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr, Chair.
Ms. Sampson, on this side of the table, I can tell you that we are very proud of the national shipbuilding strategy, and we are very, very proud of our shipbuilders. Please pass that along to your membership, and thank you very much for your tremendous work through very difficult circumstances during COVID.
Canada has an unemployment rate, based on the latest labour force survey, of 5.2%. It's the lowest unemployment rate since Statistics Canada began measuring in 1976, so it's the lowest in 50 years. Many people will attribute that to our COVID policies and the track record of this government in leading this country through the COVID pandemic.
Are you seeing a job crunch from your vantage point, as well in terms of shortages and whatnot? What is the union doing to address some of those shortages?
2:55 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
Do you mean to address some of the job shortages?
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
2:55 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
We do work hand in hand with ISI, but as we're not a labour hiring hall. We don't actually have recruitment from our labour union. That would be solely on the Irving shipbuilding side of things. We do work in tandem with them. If we have anybody we would like to refer or.... Tradespeople have lots of friends who are tradespeople, so we get a lot resumes in, and we work in tandem to try to get that done. There definitely seems to be a shortage everywhere.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I'll maybe rephrase that a bit.
Congratulations on being the first female president of this union, the marine workers, in its 85-year history, as I understand it
How do we get more women and more under-represented groups into the skilled trades, and particularly into the shipbuilding industry?
I know this government, for example, has brought forward a $10-a-day child care plan, with the hopes of getting more women into the labour force and going back to school and getting upskilled. What can we do to get more women and under-represented groups into the skilled trades?
3 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
I feel that representation does matter. I think we get out into schools more, visit high schools, NSECs, and just have that representation so that people are really thinking. A lot of high school students now know that Irving shipbuilding is somewhere they would like to work because of its job security for a solid, stable career.
We have a lot of committees in our local. We have an AWA committee, a women's committee, to get those under-represented groups out at high schools and really start advocating so that people are aware that these are possibilities for them. I think that's something we're going to be looking at doing in the future.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Through the national shipbuilding strategy, domestic shipbuilding is going to be here for years and decades to come. Is that going to have a positive impact on attracting women and under-represented groups into the industry, knowing they're going to have a job and avoid the boom-and-bust cycle for the long term? Is that an incentive to attract more under-represented groups into shipbuilding and skilled trades?
3 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
Yes, absolutely.
One big thing that was a bit of a deterrent for women in trades and under-represented groups was that a lot of the time, if you were going to work, it would mean going across the country to Alberta. That was where a lot of our skilled trades were going. To have the opportunity to stay home and to stay with your family is huge.
3 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you.
We'll go to Ms. Vignola for two minutes or less.
3 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Sampson, it's not just the members on the other side of the table who are pleased to see that employees in the shipbuilding sector in Nova Scotia and Vancouver are able work, develop their talents and hone their skills. I hope that it will also be the case for employees in Lévis. Everyone's happy to see this.
However, based on what you said in your testimony, the shipyard you work for is breaking records.
What are these records? To whom or to what is Canada being compared?
3 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
Thank you for your question.
The records I was referring to are with our apprenticeship program. We have had record-breaking numbers for our shipyard. We had 51 apprentices who successfully passed the Red Seal certification in 2021. I believe in 2022 we have it up around the 20s so far, and we have lots more who are going to achieve the Red Seal in the rest of the year. That's what I was referring to.
3 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
What do these records relate to? Is it in comparison to previous years or other countries?
3 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
No. That was referencing record-breaking numbers just within our shipyard, within our establishment.
3 p.m.
President, Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1
In terms of what that's based on, we hired some skills coaches and really changed how the program ended up working out. Just getting together with our apprentices and having a skills coach there teaching everybody and sharing experiences really helped out the apprentices to be able to be successful.