Government Operations Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests for joining us today.

My question is for Mr. Wheeler. Earlier, Lieutenant-General Kenny mentioned things like monopolies in certain countries that drive up the costs. Were there other unique or unusual restrictions or limitations that contributed to the costs of catering services in this situation?

[Stewart Wheeler]

I think that on this visit there were a number of complexities, given the number of countries and the number of stops. We would have to go back and look at the specific airports. However, I can say that the discussions with host countries.... In this case, the host countries that we visited did have an impact on which airports were chosen for our landings in the host countries. That related to, for example in the UAE, landing with a government aircraft at a time when the UAE was hosting the final month of the world Expo. The UAE government requested that we land at a specific government airport versus the main commercial one, which is often the case when we're flying government aircraft into host countries for events hosted by foreign countries.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Are the costs different with a government airport versus a commercial airport? Are the landing fees higher at a government airport than at a commercial one?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

It's different in each situation, but often these are locations where there are very limited catering services. In other words, there might only be one caterer available to us, and they're not used to working with airlines as we would see in a more normal civilian airport where the costs could be lower because they are providing greater quantities.

The location is selected by GAC in coordination with the host country, of course, for those reasons, which include security. Ultimately, there's often less choice when it comes to the actual caterers that are available to us.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Moving on, how does the GAC protocol determine the appropriate standards that in-flight catering should meet? For instance, if we have royal VVIP who are flying on RCAF aircraft, how would GAC determine the appropriate standards?

[Stewart Wheeler]

We work with the air force to request a meal plan that is in line with the health and safety travel regulations, taking into consideration how long the flight is and how many meals would be offered. As I mentioned, meals are arranged to align with standard commercial airline practices for flights of the same duration. Global Affairs protocol is not involved in visits of the royal family to Canada. We are involved only with foreign dignitaries, and of course the royal family is the Canadian royal family, so that's not one where we would be involved. The Department of Canadian Heritage coordinates the royal tours.

I think the important thing is that we work very closely with the Royal Canadian Air Force to determine the appropriate number of meals, what kinds of meals are needed, how they complement the program that we have, or if they are in line with that program. Then, we review those and confirm the final menus based on the selections we've had from catering companies.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

What is the GAC protocol office's role in this process, then? How do they interact between the RCAF and the VVIP office to determine catering choices? Where does that directive come from?

[Stewart Wheeler]

As I mentioned earlier, our job is to work with our partners, whether it be the Governor General's office or the Royal Canadian Air Force, to ensure that there are appropriate meals provided during the visit. As I mentioned before, our job is not to task, but to share information. We evaluate the menu plan, we look at the options being put forward, and we make sure that it still fits with the needs of the people who are flying, in terms of special meals, etc.

In this case, for example, I would say it's useful to know, perhaps, that the office of protocol makes the choices. At no time in the process does the Governor General herself personally review menus. The only review by the office of the secretary to the Governor General for menus for her flights is actually done as a point of information and in order to avail ourselves of the in-house translation expertise that Rideau Hall has when it comes to food so that we can meet our obligations under the Official Languages Act to present a bilingual menu to our passengers. That consultation with the office of the Governor General is for information purposes. It's the office of protocol that makes the choices for menu selections in conjunction with the air force and the options that are provided by the catering companies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Bains.

Now we will go to Ms. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I would like not only the menus to be provided to committee members, but also the breakdown of expenditures, as I asked for previously, as soon as possible, of course. I do understand that certain catering agencies do not provide an itemized breakdown, but I would be surprised to learn that every caterer refused to provide a such an invoice.

Lieutenant-General Kenny, some of our troops went to Kuwait and to the Middle East. They ate during their flights. How much does it cost to provide a meal to a soldier who's on mission on board a flight to Kuwait or to the Middle East?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

I thank the member for her question.

I do not know the cost of the meals provided to our members during these flights.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Do our soldiers receive meals that cost less than those provided to the Governor General, her guests and her staff?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

I thank the member for her question.

We do not always provide the same types of meals on board our flights as compared to the flights of VVIPs, as I stated previously.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

And yet in our minds, these soldiers should be considered VVIPs.

That said, we all have the same basic needs. Our meals should be fair. I am not saying that our soldiers should receive meals that cost $350. Rather, I am saying that the meals provided to the Governor General and the 28 or 29 persons who accompanied her should be more like those provided to our soldiers. If our soldiers are given certain meals, then those meals should be good enough for everyone, in my humble opinion.

You stated that snacks were provided. How many snacks, what kind of snacks and how much did these snacks cost in general?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her question.

There were snacks that were served on the flights. I do not have the specific breakdown of the cost for the snacks with me at this time.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

All right.

Would it be possible to send them to us, please?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

You've asked as a committee to see the cost of the catering. Whether it breaks down the cost of the snacks, I do not know, though.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

[Christine MacIntyre]

I would like to clear things up about the meal costs by stating that I was on board one of those flights. I can guarantee that the meals that we received were the same ones that are served on board commercial flights. Nothing in the menus gave cause for alarm. That is why we think it is important that we look at all the processes and see, for example, if we need to provide food during a flight that lasts an hour and a half.

With the information that we have gathered during past and current reviews, we will be able to make decisions and provide alternatives. Your question is relevant. We are looking at all the options in order to save money. Our office is supportive of all the efforts of our colleagues.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

It would be fantastic if your reviews and all the others led to lasting results.

[Christine MacIntyre]

Absolutely. I'm in agreement with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I guess just following that, $218 average for a meal.... Were there any meals that stood out that were unexpected and that were in the hundreds of dollars?

Moving forward, are you going to learn and decide that this is clearly outrageous? I'm not saying that you should eat KD, but I think it would be good for us to know the costs of the meals for our soldiers who are going overseas. As Ms. Vignola spelled out, these are the people putting their lives on the line, and we're spending this much money on a delegation.

Ms. MacIntyre, can you tell me about the objectives of the Governor General's trip and what outcomes were achieved? I think that would be important for us to understand as well, given the cost of this trip.

[Christine MacIntyre]

I will give an overview, and then I'll ask my colleague Mr. Wheeler to add to this, as these are the objectives of the government.

The Governor General is the commander-in-chief. One of the reasons we were going to this region and one of the things she did while she was there was go and visit our troops in Kuwait and in Qatar to accompany them, to see what they were doing, to offer them support and to recognize them.

We were also going to these countries as a gesture of thanks to these countries who helped Canada evacuate Canadians from Afghanistan during the crisis. We were there to build relationships with people who support this very important part in our foreign policy.

These questions.... The costs were really shocking to all of us. We had eggs. We had omelettes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I do appreciate that. In terms of the menu options that were presented by the Royal Canadian Air Force, were any of them rejected by Global Affairs? If so, what was the basis of rejecting the menus as presented? Did the selection of alternative options result in increased costs?