Government Operations Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Stewart Wheeler]

I think I could lead on that question to say that there's always a back-and-forth between the flight steward and my team in looking at the options that have been put forward. There may have been changes to some elements, but again, looking at redundancies, looking at variety during the trip.... Are we going to have the same thing for breakfast twice in a row? Are we going to have different things? Are we having chicken, fish or pork?

On the question of the importance of the trip, if you'll allow me, I would just add that not only was the visit to the troops and the high-level engagement with the senior leadership of those countries important to express Canada's thanks and appreciation for everything they have done for our military platform in that region, but also, I would remind the committee, we were at the time reinforcing the importance of regional peace and security in the context of the crisis in Ukraine—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

That's very important. I appreciate that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Just to wrap up, Mr. Chair, if you don't mind, just one comment: Two hundred and eighteen dollars a meal is about the average cost of the Port Alberni food truck that goes out and feeds over 100 homeless people a night where I live. I just want to make sure that's on the record, because that's what we have to be thinking about.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

We'll now go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to share a bit of my time with my colleague Mr. Redekopp.

Just quickly, Lieutenant-General Kenny, would you be able to provide us with the flight length of each of the trips involved that we're discussing?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry—just to the committee, not right now. Just when you have time.

[LGen Eric Kenny]

All right.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Who in Global Affairs would have signed off on the menu? I think we heard in the opening statements that Global Affairs signs off. Who specifically would have done that and would they have seen the price?

[Stewart Wheeler]

The final discussion on menus is a conversation back and forth. As we mentioned, it would be a member of my team, and no, they would not see the price at that time—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. Are they going to see the price in the future?

[Stewart Wheeler]

As I mentioned, we.... That is—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

How are we fixing this going forward so that someone says, “Oh my Lord, this is going to get us dragged in front of committee, a rather unpleasant OGGO”?

[Stewart Wheeler]

We would always be happy to see the committee, but I think you're absolutely right, sir. What we need is to have an environment between the teams where those things are being flagged to us.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

My question back to General Kenny is, then, is someone on your side saying to Global Affairs, “Heads-up, this is all you're getting”? Is it like, “Good Lord, it's $400 for stringy Air Canada chicken, beware”? Or does it just go over and everyone just shrugs because it's the taxpayer?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

We're very aware of the use of public funds and we want to make sure we're fiscal stewards of that.

The coordination that goes on with Global Affairs Canada protocols specifically is to the contents of the menu. Once that's passed to us, we will then go ahead and work with the caterer. In many cases, we will not know the cost until after that menu is selected, and then we go back to the caterer, which is when we get the cost.

Many of these catering companies don't actually provide the breakdown of costs until you select the menu. That's one of the challenges we're having right now about trying to get ahead and making sure we're getting the best value.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What airports tell you, “We're not telling you the price until after you've chosen something”? Having been in that business that actually catered to airlines for decades, I've never seen a process where it's, “We'll let you know the price after you've chosen.”

[LGen Eric Kenny]

I will give a bit more clarity on the process, Mr. Chair.

We'll work with Global Affairs Canada protocol, who will tell us, okay, on this flight leg, we are looking for a breakfast and a lunch. Once we get that information, we go to whatever catering company that we can go to. If we have multiple options, we'll do that. We'll say that we need menus for a breakfast and a lunch. We'll then get that information, pass it to Global Affairs Canada protocol, who will look at it to make sure that it meets the purpose—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Who is the gate....I don't want to say “gatekeeper”. Who, somewhere, looks at it and says, “We're not paying $218 for eggs, unless they're perhaps dodo eggs.” Who is saying that? Who has that opportunity to say, “Stop—we're not doing that”?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

This is one of the things that we're looking at. Obviously, based on what's come to light and why we're here today, there are changes that absolutely need to be made in terms of the oversight and how we determine the best value for what we're trying to do for the mission. This is something that we're working on closely to ensure....

We have already made a change, which is a change to the contingency percentage that we're purchasing.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm going to let Mr. Redekopp have the time. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

You have a minute and a half.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to pick up on that point of contingencies. You mentioned that there were contingencies. You eliminated part of them in 2019 and now, again.

Can you tell us a bit more about that? When you had the beef, chicken and pork options, how much contingency did you have if you had, say, 30 people on board? Did you have 35 meals? What were the typical contingencies?

What would happen to those excess meals once the flights were completed?

[LGen Eric Kenny]

I don't have the exact number of meals that were purchased for each flight and the contingency amount.

What I can tell you is that when you go on an airline right now, they'll often go in order. The first person has two choices and they get what they want, and as they go down, they run out of a specific meal set. That's the contingency. That's offered to more people than not, and that's what we've reduced specifically.