Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2022

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you.

I'm glad to see you online today, MP Bains. Thank you for participating.

As you know, and as I think you will confirm, Canada has the longest coastline in the world, and coastal areas are vital to our economy. We're expanding our oceans protection plan, of course, to strengthen protections for coasts and wildlife, improve marine traffic and incident management and, of course, advance partnerships with indigenous peoples.

The funding will be used to position Canada's marine safety system and ecosystem protections to better mitigate the threats to Canada's oceans, and it's also about users: the impacts of marine traffic, enabling supply chain resilience and supporting economic growth.

I hope that gives you an idea of how this investment will support our coastlines.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I want to thank you for that.

As you know, a part of our government's efforts toward reconciliation is to ensure that 5% of the value of federal contracts is awarded to indigenous businesses. I come from the traditional territories of the Musqueam and the Coast Salish people. They are very actively involved in our economy here. Can you inform the committee of how the government plans to meet its targets?

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you.

As you know, we've been putting in a lot of effort on truth and reconciliation, but also in giving opportunities for indigenous peoples to have better economic opportunities. We are committed, of course, to creating those opportunities for indigenous businesses to succeed and grow.

By 2024-25, a minimum of 5% of the total value of federal contracts must be awarded to indigenous businesses. Of course, the departments will report their performance through next year's departmental results reports.

I wanted to provide an example. As of March 24, 2022, PSPC had awarded 42 contracts, worth over $197 million, to self-identified indigenous businesses in response to COVID-19. It shows that there is a good proportion of indigenous businesses able to deliver different services. That includes logistics and air charter services, accommodation and cleaning services, IT professional services, medical and laboratory supplies, masks, hand sanitizers and thermometers. That's just to give you an example of concrete awarded contracts for indigenous businesses.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

Chair, do I have any more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have 20 seconds, sir.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Minister, thank you very much for providing all of those answers and being clear with them.

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Bains.

Mrs. Vignola, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

This budget provides nearly $4.8 billion in funding for measures related to COVID‑19, bringing the total to $16.1 billion for 2022‑23.

Canada has 467 health care centres, each with one to five employees, and hospitals with over 500 employees. For $237 million, it has purchased a total of 40,000 ventilators, over 12,000 of which are unused and unsold. A total of 40,000 ventilators for 467 health care centres means about 100 ventilators per centre, even for those with one to five employees. It seems to me that's a lot and Canada may have overestimated its needs.

Is reimbursement of the total amount for the unused and unsold ventilators included in the $16.1 billion related to COVID‑19? If not, how does the government plan to get reimbursed for the surplus ventilators purchased?

In addition, I'd like someone to explain why we paid so much for vaccines that ended up in the garbage because they had passed their expiry date.

[Mona Fortier]

We all remember two years ago when COVID‑19 hit, we had no idea what was going to happen in the next few years. It was crucial that we have the resources to ensure the health and safety of Canadians.

With the ministers' approval, the departments wanted to put the odds in Canadians' favour. We made major investments in vaccines, ventilators and equipment that would help us save Canadians. it really comes down to the fact that we put Canadians first in our efforts and priorities.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Clearly, you did, but how are we going to get reimbursed for what's unused and unsold? How do you justify vaccines ending up in the garbage?

[Annie Boudreau]

What was purchased but not used can't be in the estimates because the estimates show expenditures that have not yet been incurred and won't be incurred until they are approved by the House and Senate.

We can follow up when next year's public accounts are released. We'll know then what happened to the goods you mentioned

[Mona Fortier]

I think that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid that's our time.

[Mona Fortier]

I urge you to ask the Minister of Health, who may have more details about that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Johns, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, you said that the government is now moving to a hybrid-by-design model.

Can you please advise if any bonuses are being paid to management based on the number of employees returning to in-person work?

[Mona Fortier]

First, I want to reiterate the fact that hybrid work is, of course, here to stay. We're working with different departments to make sure that we offer Canadians the best services that we can.

As for your question, I don't think there is any link into bonus pay depending on the number of.... It's not something that is considered.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I just wanted to clarify that.

I had asked you a question: Has the Minister of Health sought any additional funding—new money—to support safer supply programs?

[Mona Fortier]

It's not in the supplementary estimates (B).

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay. That's disappointing, given the scale of this crisis, Minister. I'm going to continue to pressure your government to respond to it as the crisis that it is. The $800 million is far from enough. It's inadequate.

In June 2017, this committee tabled a unanimous report recommending sweeping changes to the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, which have yet to be implemented. Subsequently, budget 2022 committed $2.4 million over five years to the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat to launch a review of the act. Despite the lack of action on this file for years, the assistant deputy minister for people and culture recently put out a call for bargaining agent representatives to apply for two positions on the advisory committee for the review, with less than three business days' notice to respond.

This hasty request raises questions about the quality of the review that will be conducted. It has been apparent for years that Canada's whistle-blowing protection regime is broken and in desperate need of reform. However, the government is spending millions while existing recommendations sit on the shelf.

Can you please provide some details on this new review and how it will deliver value to Canadians?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a short answer, please.

[Mona Fortier]

As I said earlier to another colleague, we are currently bringing forward the names for the panel that will be working with us to do the review. I have to say that the names of the union representatives have been discussed with unions, and we will have that representation at the table.

We will be starting that review very soon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Minister.

We'll now go to Mrs. Block for five minutes, please.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses, Minister Fortier and all of the departmental officials, for being here. We appreciate your taking the time to answer our questions.

Minister, Conservatives always understood that if Canadians were being asked to stay at home and businesses were being shuttered during the pandemic, financial assistance would be necessary. However, I'm hearing daily from constituents who are waking up only to find out that they are being told they didn't qualify for the CERB payments and they are now being asked to repay those payments.

My question is more toward the Canada wage benefit. The fall 2022 economic statement proposes to provide $4 billion over six years, starting in 2022-23, to automatically issue advance payments of the Canada workers benefit to people who qualified for the benefit in the previous year, starting in July 2023 for the 2023 taxation year.

I have three questions. Did the Canada wage benefit go through the typical Treasury Board process? What has been the cost to Canadian taxpayers for recouping CERB payments that people were ineligible for? Why are you now creating the same conditions with the CWB? Are you fine with potentially writing off $4 billion of taxpayers' money?