Evidence of meeting #46 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Christine MacIntyre  Deputy Secretary, Policy, Program and Protocol Branch, Office of the Secretary to the Governor General
Stewart Wheeler  Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Melanie Kwong  Director General, Major Events, Commemorations and Capital Experience, Department of Canadian Heritage
Eric Kenny  Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force, Department of National Defence
Commissioner Michael Duheme  Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Welcome to meeting number 46 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

We have several witnesses today, all doing opening statements.

We'll start with Ms. MacIntyre for five minutes, please.

December 12th, 2022 / 11 a.m.

Christine MacIntyre Deputy Secretary, Policy, Program and Protocol Branch, Office of the Secretary to the Governor General

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

As part of my duties as the Deputy Secretary for the Policy, Program and Protocol Branch at the Office of the Secretary to the Governor General, or the OSGG as we are known, I am responsible for the planning and execution of the Governor General’s program. I was also the lead OSGG official accompanying the Governor General on the visit to the Middle East in March 2022.

I am pleased to appear again before this committee, joined by my colleagues from four other government departments, to assist with your continued and valued work regarding expenses related to official international travel of governors general.

Since our previous appearance, I am pleased to report that, together with our partner departments, some progress has been made in our commitments to the committee.

As per the committee’s motion, documents were provided detailing expenses associated with the Middle East visit, in addition to a list of official international travel by Governors General since 2014. Our offices have been reviewing how processes can be strengthened and streamlined, and the OSGG has actively participated in the working group on in-flight catering. My colleagues leading this group will speak further to this.

I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate the Governor General’s and the office’s commitment to the responsible use of public funds in all that we do. We understand the serious financial challenges felt by many Canadians.

And so, while diplomatic travel is a vital component of a country’s international engagement strategy, decisions must always reflect the highest possible standards of stewardship to ensure value for money in the use of public funds.

I would also like to take this opportunity to reiterate that at no time did the Governor General make any decisions, request any service or otherwise voice any preferences about travel, accommodation, catering or any of the administrative and logistical arrangements discussed here. She understands and respects that accountabilities and responsibilities for these visits and the related budgets reside with public servants in the appropriate government departments involved.

I also reiterate that the costs related to in-flight catering on the Middle East visit were unacceptable. My colleagues from the Royal Canadian Air Force and Global Affairs Canada will speak to this in greater detail, but I want to assure the committee that the situation is being addressed. There have already been changes, and we are all confident that these improvements will continue.

Why is this important? It is because face-to-face representation abroad is a vital part of any country’s foreign policy. A key component of the Governor General’s responsibilities is to help the Government of Canada achieve its international objectives and further enhance its diplomatic relations. This includes facilitating global co-operation and dialogue; representing Canadian values; showcasing Canadian achievement; commemorating Canada’s efforts and service, both civilian and military, to help people and regions in need; opening doors to trade; and delivering strong and important messages behind closed doors. However, this is only ever done at the request of the Prime Minister and the Government of Canada.

On the rare occasion when governors general are invited to participate in events in other countries by non-governmental organizations, they only do so with the consent and approval of the government.

We want to thank members of Parliament and the committee for raising these issues, as they have prompted a much-needed review of all related procedures and practices.

With respect to future official international visits on behalf of Canada, the OSGG commits to working with our partner departments to add further structure and rigour to planning and coordination. In this way, we will ensure that decision-making is clear, approaches are reviewed and adapted, efficiencies are found and flags are raised when required.

This is a process of continuous improvement, one that takes time to achieve and will not be perfect from the beginning, but we are determined to learn from the past and to move forward with official visits where foreign policy objectives and outcomes are advanced in a context of careful, responsible and robust stewardship of public funds.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

I stand ready to answer any questions you may have.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you very much, Ms. MacIntyre.

We'll now have Mr. Wheeler for five minutes, please.

11 a.m.

Stewart Wheeler Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee.

My name is Stewart Wheeler. As chief of protocol of Canada, I am pleased to join the committee again today, alongside my colleagues, to help clarify the processes used by our offices to fulfill our mandates, and to reassure members of the committee of our shared commitment to the sound management of public funds.

As mentioned at our last meeting, and as I am Canada's Chief of Protocol, my office is responsible for managing the international functions of state protocol, which includes coordinating the logistics of high-level visits and related events.

In all its activities, the Office of Protocol is committed to transparency and accountability in the sound management of public funds. To that end, the expenses related to high-level visits managed by my team are systematically published in the Public Accounts of Canada.

The Governor General plays an important role in international relations by travelling on state and working visits at the request of the Prime Minister to achieve specific objectives and deliver key messages.

This is a practice that began before there were Canadian-born governors general, and it has grown over the decades since, as Canada has taken its place on the world stage. This is a practice that is a standard and vital part of international relations among all nations, where visits are exchanged among countries at the highest levels to open doors and strengthen relations between international partners.

Engagement at the level of heads of state provides an entrée for conversations that are unique and that represent an indispensable tool in diplomacy, since in many countries, they cannot be replaced by communications at the ministerial or diplomatic level.

A visit by a governor general takes place when it is considered to be the most appropriate instrument to advance specific Canadian objectives in a particular region or country. Recommendations for visits are made by the Minister of Foreign Affairs to the Prime Minister through Global Affairs Canada and the Privy Council Office.

Governor General visits strengthen relationships, advance key objectives, build bridges between peoples, reinforce Canada's image as a sovereign and unified country, and convey important messages for Canada to international audiences and interlocutors.

In coordinating these visits, the office of protocol works closely with the OSGG and, occasionally, with other departments, such as Veterans Affairs Canada when visits include military components and commemorations, for example, or Sport Canada when they include events like the Olympics or the Pan-Am Games. It always works in partnership with Canadian embassies and high commissions abroad.

Visit budgets mainly cover delegation travel, accommodation, transportation and programming expenses, as you will have noted in your review of the invoices for the visit to the gulf region. In this context, allow me to speak in a bit more detail about that specific visit.

The UAE, Qatar and Kuwait are important strategic partners for Canada in the gulf region. From a bilateral perspective, the Governor General’s visit to these countries served three core objectives. The first was to express Canada’s sincere appreciation for the extensive diplomatic and military support Canada receives from these countries, including for our evacuations from Afghanistan.

The second objective was to demonstrate the importance of these relationships through face-to-face discussions and engagement at the highest level, as well as a visit to Expo 2020 in Dubai. This included a speech at the Canada Day celebration at the Expo to the host country's leaders, representatives of Expo countries and the public on the importance of diversity and inclusion, human rights and gender equality.

The final objective was to reinforce other priority issues for Canada, including regional peace and security. We have asked all three of these countries for assistance with events and operations across the Middle East region and beyond in the past, and we will almost certainly need to rely on these partners again in the future.

In the context of the current crisis in Ukraine, this visit took on additional importance. Canada recognized the imperative of engaging key partners to build global consensus concerning Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. In all three countries, the Governor General’s discussions broadened Canada’s outreach beyond our traditional like-minded partners as the government worked to manage and mitigate the effects of the crisis across many sectors.

In conclusion, the Protocol Office is confident of its knowledge and application of the highest standards of public probity in managing its finances.

We look forward to continuing to work with our partners to refine our collaborative processes and continue to find efficiencies and savings as we deliver our important mandates.

Thank you very much. I'll be happy to answer any questions members may have.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Mr. Wheeler.

We'll have Ms. Kwong, please, for five minutes. Welcome to OGGO.

11:05 a.m.

Melanie Kwong Director General, Major Events, Commemorations and Capital Experience, Department of Canadian Heritage

Good morning.

Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, I am pleased to join you today to assist in your study and consideration of expenses related to the Office of the Secretary to the Governor General for the representation activities abroad.

My name is Melanie Kwong, and I am the director general of major events, commemorations and capital experience at the Department of Canadian Heritage. My department has a statutory responsibility for state ceremonial and Canadian symbols, as laid out in the Department of Canadian Heritage Act.

State ceremonial consists of Canadian practices for planning, organizing and conducting official or public ceremonies involving dignitaries.

The State Ceremonial and Protocol Directorate of the Department of Canadian Heritage performs this official function for the Government of Canada. Its mandate is to promote and protect our national symbols, provide expertise on national protocol matters and play a leading role in state events at the national level.

State events organized by Canadian Heritage take place in Canada. Examples include the installation ceremonies of governors general, state funerals, national commemorative ceremonies and other events of national significance.

Canadian Heritage’s financial responsibilities in relation to governors general is limited to the period between when governors general designate are appointed and when they are sworn in. This responsibility includes the coordination and execution of the installation ceremony and can also include covering travel costs to the United Kingdom to meet with the sovereign prior to an installation ceremony.

In most cases, the Governor General designate will travel to London to be received by the sovereign shortly before taking office. Travel arrangements are made through an agreement between the Office of the Secretary to the Governor General and the Department of Canadian Heritage, which covers the costs of this official visit.

In closing, I would like to assure the members of the committee of our shared commitment to the sound management of public funds.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Ms. Kwong.

Lieutenant-General Kenny, welcome back. I will hand things over to you for five minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Lieutenant-General Eric Kenny Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force, Department of National Defence

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, good morning.

My name is Lieutenant-General Eric Kenny, and I am the commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force and the chief of air force staff. As a senior air force officer in the Canadian Armed Forces, I am an adviser to the chief of the defence staff on matters regarding air and space military capabilities to meet Canada’s defence objectives.

I am happy to be here again today to answer questions you may have regarding the Royal Canadian Air Force's role in providing air transport for the travel that is the subject of the committee’s study.

Upon request, the RCAF will provide safe, secure and reliable air transport, including for the Prime Minister and Governor General.

As a responsible steward of government finances, the RCAF continues to look for ways to find efficiencies in the services it provides.

Since I last appeared in September, my team has continued working with officials from Global Affairs Canada to identify efficiencies and to reduce catering costs associated with the transport of government officials.

I am pleased with the progress that has come from our ongoing collaboration, which I anticipate will result in a reduction in catering costs moving forward.

International travel will continue to be subjected to the high costs associated with aviation. This includes airport taxes and handling fees, as well as the services provided by airport catering companies globally. Nevertheless, the Royal Canadian Air Force will work in concert with our partner departments to implement changes where we can with a view to maintaining the safety and security of our passengers.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today and remain available to answer any questions you might have.

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you very much.

We will finish with Mr. Duheme, please.

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Commissioner Michael Duheme Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My name is Mike Duheme. I am the deputy commissioner of the RCMP's federal policing program. I am joined here today by Inspector Taro Tan, the officer in charge of the Governor General's protection detail.

The protective policing program falls under my responsibility as the deputy commissioner of federal policing. This includes providing close protection services for designated officials, including the Governor General. Under the RCMP regulations, the RCMP is mandated to provide close protection services to the Governor General, both in Canada and abroad. The Governor General is provided with a level of close protection in line with the high-profile nature of the position.

It is important to note that the RCMP is responsible for the close protection of the Governor General, but it is not part of the decision-making regarding travel plans or agendas. As such, the protective plan developed by the RCMP is based on decisions that are made by the Governor General's office. Protective measures are intelligence-led and are proportional to any threats and risks assessed by the RCMP, in collaboration with external partners, to ensure that designated officials are provided with protection that is appropriate and required.

The RCMP's assessment process is founded on two central factors: the threat profile and the vulnerability assessment.

First, the RCMP intelligence groups work with external partners to develop a threat profile for the location the Governor General will be visiting. This general overview is made up of three components: the threat environment at the location, including threats to the event or the crime rate at the location; threats to the Governor General; and threats to Canadian interests, due to international conflicts, for example. Once this profile is complete, the RCMP proceeds with the vulnerability assessment.

This assessment of vulnerabilities considers several factors that include, but are not limited to, the protective measures offered by the host country if it involves international travel, and the accessibility to the general public at venues such as the accommodations of the protectee and the event areas the protectee will frequent.

Taken together, the threat picture and the assessment of vulnerabilities permit the RCMP to assess the overall risk and plan accordingly to ensure the safety of the protectee. Given the range of locations designated protectees may decide to travel to, costs can vary greatly depending on the details of the trip and the protective posture required to ensure the integrity of the protectee's close protection.

It's important to note that RCMP members providing such protective services are considered to be in travel status. Their travel arrangements are in accordance with the provisions of the national joint council travel directive.

An internal review of the global costs incurred by the RCMP in the provision of protection services to the Governor General since January 2014, including incremental salary costs and travel expenditures such as meals, incidentals, travel and accommodations, was undertaken in advance of this meeting. This review shows a general consistency in the cost of close protective services provided to the past governor generals and did not identify any discrepancies that could not be accounted for.

The only notable change occurred, obviously, in 2021-22, but these variants are explained by the reduction of international travel, and I would combine national travel as well, due to COVID.

The security environment for public figures is constantly changing, both in Canada and abroad, and the RCMP will continue to provide quality, professional protective services to designated representatives.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about this important issue. We would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Wonderful, witnesses. Thank you very much.

We'll start with Kelly Block for six minutes, please.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Good morning, Chair, and thank you very much for the opportunity to ask some questions. I also want to thank our witnesses for joining us today, and I'm sorry I'm not there in person with you.

I want to say, at the outset, I am a monarchist. I truly do appreciate the role His Majesty's representative plays not only here in our country but abroad as well. However, I do believe the expenses incurred by the Governor General and her office must be transparent and able to withstand the scrutiny of parliamentarians as well as Canadians, so my questions are going to reflect that belief.

The first question is the following. What was the total number of days for this trip?

11:15 a.m.

Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stewart Wheeler

Mr. Chair, it is Stewart Wheeler speaking, and I would be happy to answer that for the honourable member. The trip took place from March 16 to March 23, 2022, so a total of eight days inclusive. The members will have noted there were expenses incurred during an advance visit earlier in December 2021.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much.

What was the total cost for these eight days?

11:20 a.m.

Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stewart Wheeler

In the production of papers we have supplied to the committee, there are amounts for each ministry. The total cost of the trip is in fact $1.147 million. For my part in Global Affairs, the total that was charged against the budgets allocated to the office of protocol was $518,741.24.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

It was $1.147 million. Does that include the advance trip?

11:20 a.m.

Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stewart Wheeler

Yes, it does, ma'am.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Okay, thank you.

I think I heard in your testimony that it is ultimately the responsibility of the Prime Minister to determine when and where the Governor General travels.

Can you, again, outline what the specific policy objectives of this visit to the Middle East were?

11:20 a.m.

Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stewart Wheeler

Mr. Chair and Madam member, I would be happy to review those.

There were three primary objectives. The first was to express Canada's sincere appreciation for the support that these three countries have all provided militarily and diplomatically to Canada in our operations in the region and beyond, particularly on complex operations such as the evacuations from Afghanistan. The second was to demonstrate the importance of those relationships at the highest level by engaging in in-person discussions and conversations with the leaders of those countries. Finally, it was to reinforce other priority issues for Canada such as regional peace and security.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

I'm aware of a report that was tabled in 2004. The OGGO committee tabled a report. There were six recommendations and, of course, this report did not receive a response from the government due to the dissolution of Parliament in May 2004, but they made some really important recommendations.

Are you familiar with that report from 2004?

11:20 a.m.

Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stewart Wheeler

No. I'm not, but I would be happy to look at the recommendations and provide feedback to the committee on notice as to how those recommendations have been included in operations and processes of the departments involved in this kind of travel.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

I will share with you one of the recommendations that I think—

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I'm sorry, Mrs. Block, can I interrupt for a second? Can you raise your microphone up a tiny bit for our interpreters? Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

One of the recommendations that I think was fairly important that I will put on the table here today is the one that was to remove the constitutional exemption of the Governor General from reporting to Parliament.

Could you share with us your initial thoughts on implementing this change?

11:20 a.m.

Chief of Protocol of Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Stewart Wheeler

I don't believe that is an area in which the office of protocol has a mandate or an official view, but I might turn to my colleague from Rideau Hall.