Evidence of meeting #53 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Now hold on just one moment, Minister. I appreciate that.
Are you fine with the Minister or...? I'm sure you can answer in Mr. Bains' time.
Go ahead. We won't penalize Mr. Bains, Minister, for your continuing.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Sure.
This is something that I've thought about since I was a kid, strangely—what seems like a kind of technical concept.
Ten minutes from where I'm sitting right now is the Westray mine, and 26 men were killed in my community when I was a kid. It was 30 years ago, and I see the families around the community all the time. There was nobody held accountable for what happened at Westray. There was a process that played out, and I think that putting this onto Westray rather than the people who were profiting on the backs of my deceased community members is something I take pretty seriously.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks, Minister.
I'm afraid you have no time, Mr. Bains. The minister used yours.
Actually, go ahead for five minutes, please.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister, for joining us today. I want to thank you for all the hard work you do. Through all the challenging times, definitely you've been able to pivot and make sure that you and your staff are getting the work done in IRCC. I can tell you that among the people in Richmond, British Columbia, there are a lot of working professionals, families and students who are very happy about that and thankful.
I want to just go back to maybe even draw upon what Mr. Barrett was saying. On February 1, Dominic Barton told the committee that “McKinsey never provides policy advice. They're executing what government wants to do.” Do you agree with this statement?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
As far as I know, that was the nature of the work that was conducted in the present instances.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you.
Just on the contracts, does the department review contracts to assess vendor performance and outcomes?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Yes, on an ongoing basis. If you'd like more details, I'd be happy to yield the floor to the deputy to shine a light on what that process looks like.
5:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Absolutely. We definitely look at our internal practices in terms of how we manage the contract from start to finish. I think that we're also always looking at best practices either through recommendations from the Auditor General or the procurement ombudsman. For instance, I know that for the McKinsey contract, as a result of a past AG report, the department ended up running, let's say, a price certification process prior to awarding a contract to ensure that we were getting the right price point based on the competitive and transparent bid that the department did. This is just one example of how we continuously try to improve from a procurement management side of things.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you for that.
How would you respond to criticism that IRCC has enough resources and shouldn't need to outsource?
6 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
In the present circumstances, Mr. Bains, we're hiring as many people as fast as we can to continue to grow our capacity. Since August, we've added more than 1,250, with a few hundred more whom we expect to add by the end of next month. We're doing what we can to continue to grow our capacity.
At times when we have a time-limited need to expand the functionality of the department in an area where we don't have a full complement of staff in-house or need to grow capacity, it can make sense to hire a consulting firm—not just at IRCC, by the way, but in any organization. This has been the practice of governments for many years. This particular example had to do with the time-limited need to help design a pathway toward the digital transformation within IRCC and then to build the capacity to make sure IRCC could implement the path forward in-house.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
You've indicated that the department has onboarded the necessary skills so it no longer needs to contract out for similar services in the future. How else is IRCC building in-house capacity?
6 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
There are a number of things that we're doing. The deputy mentioned some of the training opportunities we've had through the digital app, and we have now added more than 160 IT staff. We continue to add people at a pace that we've not seen in order to process more cases, but we're also constantly tinkering with our processes to reduce the burden on each case and then making sure that we provide opportunities for our staff to become familiar with the expectations we have as we make these different policy changes.
An organization is only as good as its people. We need to continue to set our people up for success by providing training opportunities and professional growth opportunities, so that people see a future for themselves within the organization. This comes through routine training types of opportunities, but it also comes from policy decisions at the government level to potentially give longer runways for the department to plan, which can give security to people who will know they have a job for more than a year or two so they can actually see that opportunity for professional advancement. There's no silver bullet when it comes to creating a corporate culture to maximize productivity, but investing in people and creating opportunities for short-term growth and a longer-sighted future with the department is part of the equation.
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Bains.
Minister, thank you for being with us. We appreciate your sticking around for a bit of extra time.
Before we go in camera and to committee business, I have a couple of things we need feedback on and the decision on, please.
Minister, you can hang around for this.
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
You're welcome to stay and watch the only committee that matters continue its business.
Thank you, Minister.
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Quickly, colleagues, we've received two letters, from Canada Post and Natural Resources, asking for an extension for submitting their McKinsey documents. Canada Post has asked for March 15. I don't recall, top of mind, the Natural Resources one.
I'm looking for feedback and direction on where we should go with this.
Go ahead, Mrs. Kusie.
6 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
I feel as though the motion was very clear in terms of the deadline. I'm very concerned that, if we start to provide exemptions to certain agencies, other agencies and departments will ask for the same. I don't think it's a good precedent to set, so I suggest we encourage Canada Post to stick to the proposed deadline, as outlined in the motion, Mr. Chair.
6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Obviously, I agree with encouraging everybody to stick to a deadline. Given the volume of documents they might need to get translated, I don't know whether every department will be able to deliver on time.
I think writing a letter back that encourages everyone to meet the deadline is absolutely appropriate. It can say, “If you cannot, please produce everything you have on a rolling basis, as quickly as possible.” We can then assess whether anybody has not met their entire burden and come back a couple of weeks later and figure out what to do.
A polite letter saying, “We expect you to meet the deadline, and if you can't give us everything you have, keep producing them...rolling...as quickly as you can” is probably the fairest and most reasonable way.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
I liked everything you said about, “We encourage you to meet the deadline.” I like that part.
I wasn't as excited about the second part. We don't have to be rude, but I think the letter should firmly state we encourage them to meet the deadline.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
If I can interject, I share this concern. If we do it for one, then it's for everyone else. I understand, from Canada Post, that it's not a lot of documents. If you look at the Order Paper, it's not mountains and mountains. I certainly—