Government Operations Committee on March 8th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

So, you're staying for two hours. That's wonderful.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No. Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mr. Jowhari, you have six minutes, please.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, minister and officials, once again to our committee.

Talking about the transparency and accountability at the highest level, which is quite evident in our government, let me start with the mandate the Prime Minister gave you and Minister Jaczek to review the McKinsey file, which this committee has been engulfed in for the last number of meetings. Can you quickly provide an update on where you and your department are in your findings? Is there any timing when you would be in a position to be able to provide us some feedback?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As for the update, yes, the Prime Minister has tasked me and the Minister of Public Services and Procurement to review the matter and to take a close look at the circumstances and numbers. This government, as you know, will continue to maintain the highest standards of openness, transparency and, of course, fiscal responsibility. Now the review is currently under way, and we will be delivering it to the committee upon its completion, which we are looking at as being the end of June.

At the same time, I want to inform the committee that our government continues to advance the priorities of Canadians, including, of course, good jobs for the middle class, safe communities, continuing to protect the environment, and building a country where workers and families have the best chance to succeed in these very uncertain times.

I know that the Treasury Board has already provided this committee with the McKinsey contract data, and later this month, the department's internal audit team's reviews are due to the TBS, so that gives you a sense of where we are at in the work. Again, our final report should be due by the end of June—so, in the summer. We will continue to share information with the committee as you requested. Again, I want to invite the committee to feel that they can share with me and my team their thoughts on the work that we're doing.

Thank you very much.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Another concern or question was raised about the significant portion of the funding for professional services, specifically outsourcing to the tune of $870 million. For the Canadians who are watching this committee especially as it relates to the estimates that we are about to approve, can you talk about how important these contracts are vis-à-vis the strategic direction we need to take as a government to make sure not only that departments are equipped to do the work they need to do but also that Canadians receive the services they need?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I think it's important to say that we do have an ambitious agenda, and we want to deliver on it. Of course, the Government of Canada is providing high-quality services to Canadians while ensuring best value for taxpayers. As I said earlier and will repeat, the procurement of professional services is used to complement the work of Canada's professional public service by meeting unexpected fluctuations in workload, and also to acquire special expertise.

One of these special areas, as I was mentioning earlier, is IT services. As we modernize legacy systems and further digitize operations and services, increased investment in IT is essential. Therefore, where it makes sense, we use internal resources, and when we need to, we supplement those with external resources that have special expertise, as I said earlier, or allow us to address those fluctuations in workload.

The decision to use procurement to meet operational requirements rests with departments and falls under the responsibility of the deputy head. We will continue, as I said, to support and to deliver on our ambitious agenda.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Now I'll go to the frozen allotments, which you or your official could probably shed some light on.

The (C) estimates indicate that about “$7.7 billion in money already approved by Parliament is now administratively frozen by the Treasury Board.”

Can you provide some background on why these are frozen and what the drivers of that are?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes, of course.

Frozen allotments are not available for expenditures and must lapse unless otherwise directed by the Treasury Board.

We know that freezing allotments is a normal tool to ensure that resources are managed prudently. They can be used to enforce conditions that the Treasury Board assigns to funding or to re-profile funds to a future year.

Right now in the supplementary estimates (C), Crown-Indigenous Relations is frozen for a settlement, as the timing of the settlement payments is difficult to predict right now. The contaminated sites remediation is frozen right now because it's taking a bit more time to be able to deliver on this.

That's why we have that tool, which permits us to freeze allotments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Minister.

Mrs. Vignola, you have six minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here with us this evening.

The Supplementary Estimates (C), 2022‑23, set out additional budget authorities of $10.3 billion. In his report, the Parliamentary Budget Officer notes that, since there are just five weeks left until the end of the current fiscal year, the funds would have to be spent by March 31. As we know, this report was written two weeks ago.

Does that mean that most of that 10 billion dollars has to be spent in the next 23 days?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for the question.

I will let Ms. Boudreau begin and then I will follow up.

[Annie Boudreau, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you very much.

As you know, the Financial Administration Act stipulates that the government must have parliamentary authority to make any payments out of the consolidated revenue fund. I am referring to section 26. Starting with the main estimates, Parliament adopts an appropriation act to authorize the maximum amount that can be spent.

In Canada, we use accrual accounting. That means that if I order an item today and receive it on March 31, but the invoice arrives in April or May, I can use the funds authorized in Supplementary Estimates (C) to pay for it.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

In previous budgets, it has happened that amounts were not spent. We have talked about that before.

What amounts from previous budgets, including the Main Estimates, 2022‑23, the supplementary estimates (A), (B) or others, have still not been spent even though they were earmarked?

[Annie Boudreau]

We will have a better idea of that when we close the books on March 31. As you know, the public accounts are tabled in the fall. I can tell you the amount from last year.

Last year, there was a substantial surplus. It was approximately $35 billion. Once again, the departments requested that that funding be carried over to this year because they needed it to cover their expenses.

There are mechanisms in the main estimates that enable departments to carry over funds to the following year to make sure they have enough to cover their expenses. We can say therefore that departments do not make a lot of expenditures in March for fear of losing their money. We have internal mechanisms to ensure that the money is protected to prevent the infamous “March madness” we often hear about.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Of the $1.9 million in new funding requested, Treasury Board Secretariat of Canada is requesting $486,378 under vote 1c. These funds are for the review of the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act.

That is a Budget 2022 initiative. As you know, on February 15, 2023, my esteemed colleague Mr. Garon, the member for Mirabel, introduced a very important bill for the protection of public servants who are involved in the disclosure of wrongdoing. On November 29, 2022, a government task force was created.

What stage is the task force at right now?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

First of all, thank you for your question.

I am pleased to hear you say that Bill C‑290 has some strong points.

There are also some challenges with it right now, however, because of certain changes to be made to its structure. We are in discussions right now to find ways to improve it. The task force will therefore continue its work for 12 to 18 months and then, once we have received its recommendations, we can make our proposals to strengthen Bill C‑290.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So the task force is active and the amount of $486,378 is essentially to cover salaries and administrative costs.

Is that correct?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes, that's right.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Perfect, thank you.

In 2017, the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, also known as the powerful OGGO, as our chair says...

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

He is not listening to me anymore.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

He's smiling, that's a good sign.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have an extra five minutes now.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!