Government Operations Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

First, as you know, small craft harbours are very important, and they have been something for which many have advocated for a long time. In budget 2021, our government announced $300 million over the next two years to repair, renew or replace small craft harbours. In these supplementary estimates, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard is requesting the authority to access $148 million for this funding, and that will enable the department to move forward.

You should also know that since 2016 our government has invested almost $1 billion in new funding for the small craft harbours program. As you know, livelihoods in fishing, aquaculture, tourism, the environment, recreation, marine engineering and the construction industry really strengthen the resilience of our rural and coastal communities. We will continue to look at that as giving to the prosperity of our communities.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

My final question is this: How does Treasury Board ensure that government follows through on our commitment to reduce emissions?

If there's time left, you can complete the answers to questions from other colleagues here.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As I said earlier, we are committed to reducing emissions. We are making sure that, when departments send their submissions, they show their plans and how they will move ahead, not only to set targets, but to get results. That's how we make sure, when we receive those submissions, that we look at the risks, and we look at whether they have really pushed hard to show us the actions that will be taken, making sure we're using taxpayers' money the right way.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

You get free time to complete any answers from previous questions.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I just want to thank everybody for giving me the opportunity to share that Treasury Board has a very important role. I believe that the conversation we had today helps us to also make sure we are able to respond to your different questions.

Chair, I've mentioned that I will be sending out some letters to you to share with your members containing answers to questions that I didn't get a chance to answer.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to be with you this afternoon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

With that, the minister is going to leave us. I'd like to thank the President of the Treasury Board for being here today.

Our senior officials are staying, so we will now go into questions for the officials.

We will start with Mr. Paul-Hus for five minutes, please.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Girard, I will address my question about public servants going back to the office to you.

In Quebec and other provinces, there are precise plans for public servants returning. Here in Ottawa, according to the union, many public servants would prefer to stay home. According to the figures, 50% of employees would prefer to work remotely 100% of the time, 45% of employees would like to have a hybrid model, and only 5% of employees would like to come back to the office full-time.

What are your plans?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for your question.

You may have seen that we published the most recent health and safety guidelines yesterday, in partnership with Health Canada. This means we can consider a gradual return, after Omicron and what has happened in recent weeks. According to what was very clearly announced yesterday in our communications, the return must be cautious and gradual, and must adhere to certain health and safety rules that our Health Canada colleagues have provided to us. Each deputy minister, as the person in charge of their organization, must ensure that gradual return to work plans are implemented with this in mind.

In addition, we see this as an opportunity to rethink how we do things and review the plans. In light of the experience of the last two years, we understand that there will not be a uniform approach throughout the public service.

The public service is decentralized and its operations are complex and diverse. Each department, with the support of the team working with the head of human resources, who provides the guidelines, is now preparing its plan and how it will be implemented.

It will be done gradually, to have what we can call a hybrid return, but most importantly a flexible one. We have learned from experience, and the plan will be based on experimentation. We are not the only ones who are going through this.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Indeed, you are not the only ones.

Personally, I am wondering about efficiency at work.

As we know, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada has an enormous backlog of cases to be processed. In my opinion, working remotely, on a virtual or hybrid model, can create problems in terms of efficiency. In some sectors, remote working can be done easily, while in others, the teams have to be on site.

Is this something you have observed?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Very much so.

Once again, it comes down to adopting a uniform approach. It is impossible for the Government of Canada, the largest employer in Canada, to adopt that kind of approach, because it is too complex and too diversified.

Each position has to be analyzed, and the system for organizing the work really has to be established based on that analysis. That is why we are working with our union partners. We are making sure that we hold broad consultations. In the public service, human resources are actively working on it.

One of the five major principles that we have adopted as broad parameters is obviously excellence, so that we continue to offer the services that are expected, and to offer them consistently. When things are not the same, but are consistent, it works.

The other principles are flexibility, transparency, and equity. We have learned lessons from the pandemic.

Regarding employment equity, we always base our decisions on gender-based analysis, diversity and inclusion.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Girard.

I would now like to come back to the subject of the ships, but I don't know who will be able to answer my question concerning costs.

[Annie Boudreau]

I think that Samantha Tattersall will be able to answer it.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

My question is about the costs associated with the shipbuilding, with the 15 frigates.

Of course, the minister may not yet have the information in hand, but I imagine that the Parliamentary Budget Officer will be able to evaluate the costs. You must have got that valuation yourself already. The project is going ahead, but there are enormous costs associated with it.

Can you tell me any more about this?

[Samantha Tattersall]

I would defer to my colleague, Monia Lahaie, who is responsible for the costing centre.

[Monia Lahaie, Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

We are working closely with the departments to establish and evaluate the cost of the initiatives. The most recent information I have received in this regard is that the cost will be between $56 and $60 billion.

We are working closely with the Department of National Defence to develop our organizations' capacity to establish good practices, based on international best practices, when it comes to developing costs.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Lahaie.

Before concluding, I would like to mention that the committee will shortly be doing a study on shipbuilding. I suggest that you take your own look at that subject, because it is certainly going to come up again before long.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Bains for five minutes.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.

I'm going to go on the theme of zero-emission vehicles—being from British Columbia, the first jurisdiction in Canada to introduce the carbon tax.

I want to find out a little bit more about the transition towards hybrid and zero-emission vehicles that the federal government is doing. It aims to reduce emissions from its real property and fleet by 40% below the 2005 levels by March 2026. By 2019-20, it had achieved 34.6% reductions below the 2005 levels. The president's mandate letter calls for the electrification of all light-duty vehicles by 2030.

What proportion of the federal fleet do light-duty vehicles comprise? This is for anybody who has the answer.

[Samantha Tattersall]

I'll be happy to answer that.

About 60% of the government's vehicle operation is for light-duty, and 60% of the 30,000 vehicles, 18,000, are for conventional light-duty versus, say, security vehicles. That's where the focus is in terms of electrifying our light-duty vehicles.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Okay.

In order to achieve some of these goals, how many light-duty vehicles procured by 2030 will be manufactured in whole or in part by Canadian companies?

[Samantha Tattersall]

That's a great question.

Whenever we go out for procurement, we try to follow the open, fair, competitive process, so we would competitively tender those.

It's difficult to say or predict how the market is shifting or changing and who would compete for those procurements, but the approach to that would be open and competitive.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Do we have an idea of how many companies in Canada would be capable?

[Samantha Tattersall]

That is a good question.

We know that in the past few years Canada's automotive industry has become one of the leaders—the top 12 producers—of light-duty vehicles, and Canadian companies are leading the way in developing some of these technologies. In the past few years, manufacturers like Ford, GM and Lion Electric have committed billions to transforming their Canadian facilities to produce electric vehicles.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to just shift a little bit into procurement.

The president's mandate letter instructs her to “[s]trengthen federal procurement policies to integrate human rights, environment, social and corporate governance principles and supply chain transparency principles”.

What lessons about ethical purchasing has the federal government learned from its COVID-19 procurement initiatives?

[Samantha Tattersall]

The procurement during COVID-19 would have followed the framework and processes that we have in place—existing legislation and regulations.

PSPC, which I know will be at this committee later this week, is the contracting authority that would have led those big procurements, so they may be better placed to provide that information to this committee.