Government Operations Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Ritika Dutt]

We were never even allowed to deploy the solution within CBSA because the project was cut when we reported misconduct. For the portion we did start work on, that was for the configuration of our existing solution.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. There was a solution. It needed to be configured. You partially configured that so you could go through proof of concept. Then you realized there was misconduct. You informed CBSA. CBSA said, “Hold on a sec. We're going to pull this contract out.”

[Ritika Dutt]

Yes, and we had fully configured it, actually. We turned on all the—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

You fully configured it, but it never got to the point of demo and implementation, etc. You delivered the fully configured application to CBSA.

[Ritika Dutt]

We did demonstrate it to CBSA, but we did not implement it with CBSA employees.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

How long did this process take? Was it five months or three months?

[Ritika Dutt]

It was supposed to take six months. It took almost an entire year.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

During an entire year, you were configuring the system and enhancing it to meet the requirements, and then you never got a chance to actually roll it out because it got pulled away.

[Ritika Dutt]

That's correct. We configured it, but we did not—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

The total agreed number was $350,000.

[Ritika Dutt]

Yes. That was through a fixed-price contract that should have been a contract.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

You also mentioned another $50,000 and another $20,000 for a total of $420,000. Did I misunderstand? We have a stream of $350,000, $336,000, $112,000 and another stream of $350,000, $50,000 and $20,000.

Can you help me with that?

[Ritika Dutt]

Absolutely. When we were approached, we gave the price of $350,000 for our work. We got back a contract that was not even with us. It was between GC Strategies and Dalian. It would be $336,000 for Botler. On top of that $336,000, they added another 20% as commission, so the value of the contract ended up at $420,000, before tax. That was given to Dalian, and GC Strategies had originally told us that, on top of our $350,000, they wanted to add $50,000 as a commission.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. I'll have another turn and I'll ask.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, sir.

We have Ms. Kusie.

Go ahead, please.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's very evident that everyone in this room, including the government, should be concerned as it's very evident that there definitely seems to be some type of systemic problem at play here, and that's absolutely what we have to get to the bottom of with this committee.

In addition to the large amounts my colleagues mentioned, I see that GC Strategies has contracts, in fact, with more than 20 departments across the government. There is no way this is not systemic. We absolutely have to get to the root of what happened not only there but also where else it is happening within the government. That is most definitely the objective here.

Before I move on to my next line of questioning, I want clarify for a final time your communication with Mr. Ossowski. He said initially that he didn't have any meetings with you. Then in the most recent meeting he retracted that. He stated that he had just the Teams meeting with you. Is that accurate?

[Ritika Dutt]

The only meeting we had with him was the Teams meeting. It was delayed a few times because of the pandemic, but then it took place on Teams. We had email communications with him on top of that.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay.

In an effort for us to get to the bottom of this, we've asked for the documentation, but we have to get to the who. Who is behind this? Who is behind this within the CBSA? Who else might possibly be behind this within the government?

Which government officials did you talk to in pursuit of the CBSA contract—just for the pilot?

[Ritika Dutt]

We were informed by the CBSA that it intended to take this enterprise throughout the government. In support of that, GC Strategies took us to meetings with various government departments and officials.

I believe you're asking for names.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Please.

[Ritika Dutt]

There was Philippe Johnston at Transport Canada. Marc Brouillard and Paul Girard were at the Treasury Board of Canada. There was an individual whose name is, I believe, Daniel Gaudreau. He was at the CRA at the time.

There were some other individuals who I can't recall right now, but I can certainly provide their names to you after.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Sure. That would be very helpful.

You mentioned that this piece you were working on was to be used as a pilot and, perhaps, implemented across other departments as a technical solution for Bill C-65. Were any other departments indicated to you, where it might potentially be used if it went well at the CBSA?

[Ritika Dutt]

It was supposed to be used by the entire government for Bill C-65. That's why the CBSA wanted to be the one.... It said it was the pathfinder. It wanted to get the credit for it.

Everybody we spoke with...it was for the same implementation of that same solution that was being identified as a pathfinder by the CBSA.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay.

We have names such as Cameron MacDonald, obviously, and Mr. Doan, who was here the other day, the then-president Mr. Ossowski and the now-president Ms. O'Gorman.

Were there any other officials at the CBSA whom you communicated with?

[Ritika Dutt]

Antonio Utano was the one I sent the report to. We were told by Mr. Firth that he does a lot of business with Mr. Utano. There was also the individual I named today: Diane Daly. She stepped in after we submitted the report—