Government Operations Committee on Nov. 27th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have Mr. Kusmierczyk.

You've had a couple of your colleagues showing support. Are you ready to move ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk, and vote on Ms. Vignola's amendment?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to reiterate what my colleague Mr. Sousa mentioned. I appreciate the collaboration right now between all the partners around the table from the various parties. It does seem like we're finally zeroing in on the substance of what we're trying to get at and the clarity that we want to be able to share with Canadians, the good news story, which is that you have investment after investment after investment bringing thousands of jobs to communities like Windsor. We want to share that good news with Canadians, and we want to share that good news with communities.

At the same time, I understand what Mr. Sousa said, and I agree that we do need to find a balance that also—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, I apologize for cutting you off, and I try not to do this at all, but we're down to a couple minutes. I'm wondering if we seem to have general agreement to at least address Ms. Vignola's motion.

I'm seeing a lot of heads nodding. Perhaps we can get to the motion if there's a will to vote on it in the next couple of moments.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Is this the amendment to the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

This is the amendment, I apologize. It's Ms. Vignola's amendment.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay. I want to say that I feel like we're finally moving towards a balance. That balance is sharing the good news, the information with Canadians, but making sure that we don't put the agreements, present and future, at risk. I think we're trying to strike that balance to be responsible.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Are we ready to vote on Ms. Vignola's amendment?

(Amendment agreed to on division)

Colleagues, we have Minister Duclos here tomorrow. We will look forward to hearing more from him. I think it was Mr. Sousa who was commenting about that. I think there will be a way it will be addressed.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

We're not done; we haven't completed this work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are out of resources, so we are suspending—

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

So we continue tomorrow, do we not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give me a second.

We have not voted on the main motion. I'm not forcing that ahead.

We do have Minister Duclos here tomorrow, and I assume we'll—

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Can we suspend?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

—suspend and we will—

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Suspend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

—hear from Minister Duclos.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Can we suspend?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Sousa, if you would let me speak, I will speak. It's been a long day, but please let me finish. Thank you.

We will see Minister Duclos tomorrow. We will have questions for him, but we are suspending right now. Thank you.

[The meeting was suspended at 8:42 p.m., Monday, November 27]

[The meeting resumed at 3:38 p.m., Tuesday, November 28]

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I call this meeting back to order.

Good afternoon, everyone.

I will get to you, Ms. Vignola, in just a moment.

Welcome to the resumption of meeting number 88 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, a.k.a. “the mighty OGGO”. Pursuant to Standing Order 106(4), the committee is resuming its suspended meeting to consider requests for contracts between the federal government and the electric vehicle battery manufacturing companies.

I remind everyone to keep earpieces away from microphones, as it causes feedback and potential injury.

When the committee suspended last night, we were debating an amendment moved by Ms. Vignola, and she still has the floor. We are therefore resuming debate on the amendment by Ms. Vignola.

Go ahead, madam. You have the floor.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Given the time we have, I would like to move the following motion: That the committee proceed to the study of the Supplementary Estimates (B) 2023‑24.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

We have a dilatory motion on the floor to start our study on the supplementary estimates with the minister, who just happens to be here.

Colleagues, are we fine with this, or do we need to vote?

We seem to have unanimous consent. Thank you very much.

Minister, please join us.

We will have a very short suspension while the minister and his team get ready.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the order of reference adopted by the House of Commons on Thursday, November 9, 2023 and the motion adopted a few minutes ago—thank you, Ms. Vignola—the committee is resuming its study on the supplementary estimates (B) for 2023-24.

We'll get the minister to start his opening statement while we're handing out our nameplates.

Minister, thanks for your patience. You have five minutes. The floor is yours, sir.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Minister of Public Services and Procurement]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Thank you for your kind invitation to take part in the important work of this committee. I also want to thank you for all your efforts to serve Canadians. I would also like to acknowledge that we are gathered on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg peoples.

With me today are my deputy minister, Arianne Reza; Scott Jones, president of Shared Services Canada; assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer of Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, Wojo Zielonka; and chief financial officer of Shared Services Canada, Scott Davis.

Others will be joining us for the second hour of the meeting, if it ends up taking place. They are Simon Page, assistant deputy minister; Catherine Poulin, assistant deputy minister; Michael Mills, assistant deputy minister, Procurement Branch; and Daniel Mills, assistant deputy minister, Enterprise IT Procurement and Corporate Services Branch.

I am pleased to be here to discuss supplementary estimates (B) for Public Services and Procurement Canada and Shared Services Canada.

This is the first time I am appearing before you as Minister of Public Services and Procurement. I hope to be able to enlighten you on many important topics, including the progress we are making on the Canada dental plan to reduce the cost of dental care for families, the progress we are making on improving the delivery of many services, and the steps we are taking to improve the supply of social and affordable housing, to name a few.

Before I respond to questions regarding the specifics of our requests in the supplementary estimates (B), I would like to take a moment to recognize and thank the committee for its ongoing study of ArriveCAN. I have also been following developments and receiving updates from my officials, in order to better understand the various elements of this matter.

First, I would like to be clear on the division of roles and responsibilities. PSPC is the government's common service provider when it comes to contracting. This does not mean PSPC handles every contract from every government department or agency. It does handle the larger and more complex contracts. PSPC also identifies qualified suppliers for a wide variety of goods and services so other departments and agencies can then enter into their own contracts under their own authorities to meet their own needs. While, for instance, the Canada Border Services Agency, as you heard, oversaw the development and deployment of the ArriveCAN app, PSPC developed the contracting tools and supplier lists that could be used for that project, or for any other project the agency determined was necessary.

Mr. Chair, we know there is always room for improvement in our processes, which is why we are taking immediate steps to ensure these processes are working as they should be. PSPC is validating the security of resources who worked for GC Strategies, Coradix Technology and Dalian Enterprises under contracts over the last 12 years, as requested.

Mr. Chair, this is a significant undertaking that is still under way.

To date, PSPC has received information on 3,000 consultants associated with the contracts. Audits conducted to date have confirmed that 99% of consultants have the appropriate security clearance. In terms of other resources, the review is ongoing.

In addition, given the nature of the allegations, my department has asked the chief security officers of all departments that hold active contracts with these suppliers to verify that the resumés, or CVs, of the consultants assigned to these contracts are fair and free of exaggeration.

In addition, my officials have asked to be apprised of the results of these audits, in which they will determine whether overstating on CVs is a widespread problem. If that is the case, action will be taken.

In this regard, my officials have informed me of the work they are already doing to strengthen procurement instruments, particularly in the area of professional services.

In the short term, they will put additional controls in place to further strengthen the administration of procurement instruments. Among other things, they will require the accuracy of CVs and resources assigned to contracts to be confirmed, and that procurement officers across government undergo additional training.

My department is working with the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat to update and improve procurement training.

These are some of the initial steps that are being undertaken.

In addition, I'm confident that the work you are yourselves undertaking, informed by the reviews of the Office of the Procurement Ombudsman and Auditor General, will significantly help to identify potential ways to improve further procurement processes, controls and better value.

Mr. Chair, I have used my time during my opening remarks to focus on issues related to the integrity of the procurement process, as I know this topic is of interest to this committee. Nonetheless, I recognize that my officials and I have been asked to speak to you about the requests in our supplementary estimates (B), and we would be pleased to do so.

To sum up, to support our activities, we are requesting access to additional funding of $229 million for Public Services and Procurement Canada and $53 million for Shared Services Canada through supplementary estimates (B).

My officials and I would be pleased to discuss all related topics, including the e-procurement system, the work we're doing to improve access to dental care, the delivery of services under the Public Service Health Care Plan and the supply of affordable housing.

I look forward to answering your questions and working with this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll start with Ms. Kusie, please, for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Minister, as you indicated in your opening remarks, on October 4 of this year, The Globe and Mail reported that there were numerous contracting discrepancies between Botler AI, GC Strategies, Dalian, Coradix and the CBSA, resulting in a criminal investigation. These alleged activities include collusion, fraud, identity theft, forged résumés and fraudulent contracting.

How do you as minister of procurement account for this lack of oversight and this criminal investigation?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you.

Let me be clear from the start. The Botler AI contract, to which you correctly alluded, has nothing to do with ArriveCAN. It was a contract that was undertaken for other purposes. It is totally appropriate that the RCMP is investigating the important allegations of misconduct in this contract. I understand that this is under the purview of CBSA, the Canada Border Services Agency. We have confidence that they are doing their due diligence in digging into this important matter.