Government Operations Committee on March 22nd, 2022

[Troy Crosby]

My apologies, Mr. Chair, but could the second part of the question be repeated?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Of course, Mr. Crosby.

My question was on modernizing NORAD.

We know that the Inuit company is currently conducting maintenance, but are you planning to start any modernization initiatives soon?

General VanHerck, commander of NORAD, came in December and said that he is starting to lose patience.

What is Canada doing? Are you in the process of getting ready to move this file forward?

[Troy Crosby]

Thank you for repeating the question for me.

Budget 2021 did provide an initial $252 million over five years to support continental defence and NORAD modernization initiatives, including advancing research related to all domain awareness, sustaining the North Warning System and modernizing long-range communications capabilities. That work is ongoing.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Given that billions of dollars are needed to support these modernization initiatives, we obviously won't get very far with $250 million.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Jowhari for five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First and foremost, I'll start by thanking Major-General Ménard and the men and women of the Royal Canadian Air Force for their commitment to keeping Canada safe across all our borders, and the contributions of the broader Canadian Armed Forces in making sure that Canada remains safe and stays engaged internationally. Sir, thank you very much.

I'll continue on the topic of NORAD modernization. I believe this question will be for the Major-General.

In Canada's defence policy, “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, it is noted that Canada needs to remain agile and flexible within a global security environment that is complex and unpredictable. In the second report of the defence committee on aerial readiness, it also indicated that the advancement of new missiles with dangerous capabilities in terms of their precision and unpredictable nature constitutes an important new challenge to NORAD.

This is my question for the Major-General: Given the current global context, the ongoing threat imposed by Russia and Russian advances specifically in the hypersonic missile, how is Canada maintaining its flexibility and agility in terms of NORAD or other forms of preparation and protection?

[MGen Sylvain Ménard]

Thank you very much for your appreciation of all CAF members.

I will highlight that, unfortunately, in my capacity as a representative of the Royal Canadian Air Force, I cannot speak on NORAD at this stage. As I mentioned earlier, the Royal Canadian Air Force trains and supplies the personnel and equipment to NORAD, and NORAD employs those forces readily, but unfortunately it would be improper for me in my capacity this afternoon to answer the question that you posed. I'm sorry about that.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Let me ask a follow-up question. You're preparing the men and women who will be supporting. There are two schools of thought around modernization: One is more around the update, and the other one is expansion, expanding the scope of NORAD.

Are you in any position to be able to talk about those two items as an expert?

[MGen Sylvain Ménard]

Again, at this stage, I think it would be improper for me as an air force representative to comment on NORAD's steps forward and what NORAD intends to do for its modernization. I'm sorry I cannot provide more at this stage.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. Well, thank you for that.

Let's go to the purchase of the 88 fighter jets to improve capability. In your opening remarks, I believe it was either you or Mr. Crosby who talked about the fact that we need to make sure we stay compatible with our allies. NORAD and NATO are our allies, especially the U.S. and Europe within NORAD and NATO, and especially when it comes to defending our northern territories.

How do those 88 fighter jets and their capabilities and platforms factor into the process to ensure, whether we go through modernization version one or modernization version two, that we'll be able to keep our northern borders secure?

I'm willing to take an answer from anyone.

[MGen Sylvain Ménard]

I would like to say that the 88 fighters that the RCAF has identified as the magic number, if you will, are based on the mandate that has been given to the Royal Canadian Air Force in Canada's defence strategy, “Strong, Secure, Engaged”. We went into a detailed analysis. This amount of aircraft will enable us to fulfill our mission requirements, first for NORAD, then for Arctic sovereignty and things of that nature, and for NATO, as well. It will also ensure that we can make a meaningful and credible contribution to our Five Eyes partners.

This is what I have to offer at this stage.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I think I have about 10 seconds.

Is it fair to say that, regardless of the platform, whether we go with Saab or with the F-35, the capability is there?

[MGen Sylvain Ménard]

The Royal Canadian Air Force put in its operational requirement the high-level monetary requirement that we need for operational capability. Interoperability is right up there with our NORAD and NATO partners. I expect that any platform that is selected will meet that high-level monetary requirement. It's a fundamental requirement for the Royal Canadian Air Force.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, General.

We'll now go to Mrs. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Crosby, regarding the purchase of the Australian F‑18s, is Canadianization included in the total price of $339.3 million, yes or no?

[Troy Crosby]

Yes, it is.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

In your opinion, Mr. Crosby, is the aerospace industry a strategic industry for the federal government right now?

[Troy Crosby]

The Canadian aerospace industry is a world leader in many domains and provides very important support to a number of our fleets across the country. I see it continuing to do that well into the future.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Ménard, just between us, be honest, which plane would your guys like to work with?

We know that our current planes are outdated, which explains some of the recruitment problems. No one likes to play with old toys, be they two or fifty years old.

Which fighter aircraft do your pilots prefer?

[MGen Sylvain Ménard]

Thank you for the question.

I will say that all airmen and airwomen in the Royal Canadian Air Force are looking forward to the decision and to working with the new fighter.

At this point, it would be inappropriate for me to give an opinion as to what type of aircraft the airmen and airwomen of the Royal Canadian Air Force want to fly, since Canada is in an open and transparent process.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm going to talk briefly about recruitment problems.

As I just said, we agree on the fact that no one likes to play with old toys. It is possible that youth are less attracted to the military because of problems with equipment.

That being said, do you think the upcoming announcement about purchasing fighters will increase youth interest in military aviation?

What will you do to increase interest?

[MGen Sylvain Ménard]

Thank you very much for the question.

I want to say that at the Royal Canadian Air Force, our organization has no shortage of candidates who want to become airmen and airwomen.

Of course, in the last few years, due to the pandemic, it has been a little more difficult to recruit people because of all the public health measures in place. Having said that, we don't generally have a problem in terms of attracting staff.

I can't speculate on what effect the announcement of a new aircraft will have, but we at the Royal Canadian Air Force are certainly looking forward to hearing the decision. There's no doubt that new equipment of any kind is always more appealing to the new generation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. Johns, for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One war and battle that we don't talk enough about is the war against climate change. We know that the military has stepped up, and we are all grateful, whether it be with the floods, or last summer when 350 military personnel helped tackle fires that were raging across the interior in British Columbia and Manitoba.

What is DND's goal in terms of helping tackle this war we have against climate mitigation and change, and the fires? We know it has downloaded the primary responsibility on the provinces.

I think about Coulson Aircrane Ltd., a company in my riding, which is a global firefighting leader, especially when it comes to night firefighting capacity. They are in Australia, Argentina, the United States, Chile and Bolivia, but they are not doing business here in Canada. They could help us put out fires that are raging and would be helping tackle climate change by putting them out quickly. It's that Canadian story of Canadian companies not getting procurement from the government that could help us take on these huge issues.

Maybe, Mr. Page, you can help with this because it is defence-related, DND-related. My question is why in Canada does the military not support aerial firefighting capabilities with C-130s, CH-47s and Black Hawks? This is common practice in the United States.

Maybe you can tell me whether you are considering it or looking at it, because I think it would be very important for the federal government to take leadership and help support this really important need.

[Simon Page]

In terms of the word “need” here, I don't want to shy away from answering a question, but I think I will defer to my colleagues in DND.

In PSPC, when we execute a solicitation process, we get the requirement from the client, in this case DND, and then we look at how to execute the solicitation process.