Evidence of meeting #97 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vaughn Brennan  Professional Consultant, As an Individual

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Here's another excerpt from an email from Mr. Brennan—from you—on March 9, 2021. It reads, “Just a heads up in that I've reached out to a group under the Transformational [Vice-President] in Organizational Culture and Change Management to get their feedback and any possible insights.” Then later it reads, “I'm working with the Change Management office with a colleague to set up a meeting with the Culture office.” Maybe you can speak to that.

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

Absolutely, I can. That was the first task authorization that I mentioned, which was for the inventory of transformation projects. I was already on that contract.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

What was the nature of your relationship with the former deputy minister, Mr. Ossowski?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

None.

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

I never communicated. I never got to communicate.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Have you ever transferred internal government information or communications to third parties who are not the intended recipients?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

You would have to clarify. I don't understand the question.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Okay, I will.

On March 25, 2021, you forwarded an internal CBSA email from the president to Botler and Firth. The excerpt from the email is, “It's with mixed emotions that we announce the departure of Pat Boucher, Vice-President and Chief Transformation Officer, from the agency...Pat's last day at the agency will be April 19, 2021. Geneviève Binet, the Director General of Enterprise Transformation in CTOB, will be assuming his responsibilities on an interim basis. We know we can count on your full support for Geneviève and CTOB in this time of transition.”

Was there not something in my original question about transferring internal government information or communications to third parties who are not the intended recipients?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

It's a sharing of knowledge.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

What's your involvement with the Department of National Defence?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

I started my career inside of Lockheed, way back when, but to be candid, the last time I worked at National Defence, I believe, was in 2016, and it was on the defence renewal.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Who's your good friend from General Jonathan Holbert Vance's office, the chief of the defence staff's office? There's an excerpt from an email from you on February 5, 2021, that says a “good friend has been in the Vice's office for 18 years”. Who are you referring to?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

That person is retired.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Who is it?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

It was a lady who was an executive assistant.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

What's her name?

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

I can't recall her name, actually.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

A good friend has been in the vice's office for 18 years, but you can't remember who it is. You're under oath.

I'm sorry. Mr. Chair, I need help here.

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

I think her first name is Joanne, but again....

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Can you put that in writing to this committee? You're stating that it was a good friend in the vice's office. You're being asked a direct question. Now you can barely remember the person's first name. It doesn't sound right. It sounds like a lot of witness testimony we've had at this committee, where people just refuse to answer.

12:35 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

It's not that I'm refusing to answer—

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I'm going to interrupt here, Mr. Brennan.

I'm sorry, but that is your time.

Mr. Johns has a point, though. Would you be able to get back to the committee with the name of that person, please?

We're going to go to Mr. Brock now for five minutes, please.

January 17th, 2024 / 12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Brennan. There are a couple of loose threads that I want to continue discussing with you, based on questions you've received from colleagues.

I get the overall impression that you wish to distance yourself from any formal or informal relationship with Mr. Kristian Firth. I can probably understand your motivation to do that, given that he's testified twice at this committee. His credibility is certainly an issue. He's been caught in a number of lies, and he's under investigation by the RCMP.

I am going to give you an opportunity, sir, to reflect on my comments as I ask you further questions about your relationship with Mr. Firth, but before I do that I want to go back to the original Bill Curry article in The Globe and Mail from early October. It really sets out, towards the latter end of the article, your involvement in the Botler controversy and scandal with the government.

Specifically, the reporter reached out to you. You indicated to the reporter that your reference to having inside knowledge was a fabrication. You clarified that and said you had “'fibbed' in an effort to put pressure on Ms. Dutt to take more action on the file”.

We're all adults in the room. The last time I heard the word “fibbed” was in relation to my five-year-old twins. They're 14 now, and they certainly don't use the word “fibbed”. I use the word “lied”.

Do you admit, sir, that you definitely lied to Ms. Dutt to take so-called action on the file? Is that correct? Am I reading that correctly?

12:40 p.m.

Professional Consultant, As an Individual

Vaughn Brennan

No, I did not lie. There were open conversations around the use of GEDS, and that is what I used to identify people inside the DPMO.