Evidence of meeting #98 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A video is available from Parliament.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The investigation has been carried out consistent with our investigation. I have not spoken to the investigators. The process is such that when people are subject to—
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
So it's pure coincidence. They came on November 7 and were very critical of you personally, and then two weeks later—slightly more—they were told that they were under a cloud of investigation. Subsequently you sent a preliminary finding of fact to their bosses, which led to their both being suspended without pay, all in a few months' succession after their appearance and testimony. Their legal support was withdrawn as a result of a decision you made, which you claim is in keeping with Treasury Board guidelines. All of this was within weeks and months immediately after they came and criticized you at this committee, and you're telling us that was purely coincidence. Is that what you're telling us?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Is the suggestion that I'm interfering in the investigation? There is no information to support that. I'm not speaking to the investigators—
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I'm pointing out the timeline, but here's what I'd like you to do. I'd like you to provide the preliminary statement of fact, which you provided to their superiors, to this committee within 48 hours. Will you undertake to do that?
Conservative
Conservative
President, Canada Border Services Agency
—was at a point in time and, being conscious of my obligations under the Privacy Act—
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I'm asking a question.
You talk about your concern about the integrity of the investigation, but you have told this committee—you've chosen to publicly testify—that you believe Mr. Utano and Mr. MacDonald have behaved inappropriately. You have said that on the record at the same time as claiming you don't want to compromise the investigation.
You made the decision to send those letters immediately after they gave testimony at this committee critical of you. If you won't answer my question, I hope the committee will agree with me to order the production of that preliminary statement of fact that you sent to superiors of Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano.
I put it to the committee that we order the production of those documents with 48 hours. That's not a question. That's for the chair.
I think I'm out of time.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We are, but I will ask colleagues: Are we fine?
Mr. Jowhari, did you want to respond to that?
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Yes, with the same comment as I did yesterday with Mr. Gord Johns. If we can have it in writing in both official languages, I would appreciate that. As usual, we always support any type of production of documents. I appreciate [Inaudible—Editor]
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you. I've stated it clearly.
It is the preliminary statement of fact that Ms. O'Gorman sent to the direct bosses of Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano that led to their suspension. I'm requesting that the committee order the production of those documents.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm going to interrupt because we're out of time.
We're going to try to get that translated and sent around, and perhaps we can address it a bit later in the meeting.
We'll get the translation sent around to everyone if you could provide and send to our clerk exactly what you're looking for so we can move forward on that.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I rise on a point of order.
I'm sorry, Mr. Genuis, could you lean back from the mic a bit when you're speaking? It's hard on our ears, and I'm sure it's hard on interpretation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks. We'll pass it on.
Mr. Bains, we'll try you again. IT thinks they've got you fixed, so please go ahead.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you. I'm going to go to Ms. O'Gorman.
We know that ArriveCAN is not being investigated. As you're aware, the Office of the Auditor General has been working on a report on ArriveCAN. The last time she was here, she was disappointed that this matter had not been brought to her attention. Are you keeping in good contact with her office to make sure that she has what she needs for her work?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes, that was my decision not to provide that to the Auditor General at the time, because the allegations related to another contract. In hindsight, I recognize that they were the same individuals and they were the same company. I probably ought to have informed them of that, including the caveat that we knew nothing further.
We have appreciated the work with the Auditor General. Our teams have worked closely with them. I look forward to her report, and I expect that she'll have some good recommendations.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
You're referencing “the same individuals” and “the same company”. Can you name them, please?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
As they've been named here: GC Strategies, among the companies, and the individuals have already been named as well and are included in the email disclosure that was in the package I provided.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Procurement practices at CBSA are ultimately what we're looking at and what you're looking at. In light of what we've been hearing at committee these past months, do you have faith in your organization's ability overall to follow fair procurement practices? With everything that we've heard, do you think the system is working, and the practices that you're trying to improve...? Are you seeing some changes? Are you bringing changes forward? If you could, maybe share something on that.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I have every confidence in the people at CBSA, absolutely. CBSA does a lot of procurement of goods and services. There are no specific concerns I have. As regards contracting, staff augmentation, information technology, I have see that in some cases files were not complete. I've seen engagements with vendors, with contractors, that didn't involve procurement officials—unclear roles and responsibilities. That's what I'm looking to fix.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
I'm going to go back to Mr. Ossowski.
As you know, part of our role here as members of OGGO is to provide recommendations to government. Has your experience in this process, what you've witnessed here and your appearance here led to any insights or recommendations that could improve the procurement process?