Government Operations Committee on Jan. 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We will have time during the meeting, though. You don't have to worry. We're not going to finish right at three o'clock.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Mr. Barrett, please.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I'm having a hard time reconciling the fact that you said that you were at the Prime Minister's department but that it wasn't about ArriveCAN. It was immediately before your appearance here. When pressed in my questions to you, you said that you focus-grouped your opening remarks to your colleagues who work in the Prime Minister's department at that allegedly unrelated meeting. I find it hard to believe. I think Canadians would find that hard to believe. Who was at that meeting from the Prime Minister's Office?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I have not met with anybody from the Prime Minister's Office.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

My question was this: Who was at that meeting who works in the Prime Minister's Office?

[Erin O'Gorman]

If you mean the building, I was meeting with Privy Council Office officials.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

My question is very clear. You were at a meeting. It's in your calendar. You acknowledged that you were at the meeting. Was there anyone from the Prime Minister's Office in attendance at that meeting?

[Erin O'Gorman]

No.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

There was no one. Okay. So, it was just the PCO that you focus-grouped your remarks for this committee with.

[Erin O'Gorman]

The focus group I provided them—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

On page 180 of the emails that you provided to this committee, it talks about the time management strategy for your appearance before this committee and that the PCO wanted to review all of the documentation being requested by this committee. It's something else that you seem unaware of. You're taking meetings with the Prime Minister's department, the PCO, immediately before and immediately after your appearance at this committee. It's reviewing all of the documentation that's coming from your office, your department, which illegally refused document production orders of this committee. You're telling us that all of these meetings at the PCO that are happening directly around your appearance at this committee are unrelated. You do acknowledge that you did circulate your opening remarks in advance, but there was no discussion at these allegedly unrelated meetings.

Do I understand that correctly?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I'm not even sure where to begin to answer that. I've attended meetings—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

The truth would be the best place to start, and that would be a wonderful change.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I have been absolutely honest and forthright with this committee.

The meeting you're asking about preceded my previous appearance at OGGO. Is that the meeting?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, I'm not getting an answer. I'll give the rest of my time to my colleague.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Ms. O'Gorman, given the extreme seriousness of this matter, with both the RCMP and the Auditor General now investigating this boondoggle of the ArriveCAN app procurement and the $54-million cost, you surely, as the president of the CBSA, would be keeping your minister, Dominic LeBlanc, the Minister of Public Safety, fully apprised of all developments.

Is that correct?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I informed the minister that I had received preliminary statements of fact that were of concern and that I was providing them to the deputy heads.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you provide Minister LeBlanc with a copy of those findings?

[Erin O'Gorman]

No.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Why not?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I didn't think he.... He didn't ask for it.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How many meetings have you had with Minister LeBlanc with respect to this investigation?

[Erin O'Gorman]

We've had no meetings. I called him to inform him that—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How many calls have you had with him?