Evidence of meeting #98 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Do you recognize the concerns and the conflict of interest in using taxpayer dollars to fund the private legal counsel of the same individuals who are under investigation by the RCMP, by this committee and by your own agency?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I'll just clarify this: I don't know if anybody is under investigation by the RCMP. I have no information about that one way or the other. I applied the Treasury Board policy on legal fees for public servants.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Can you explain why the Department of Justice wasn't taking the lead in terms of providing counsel?
Also, lastly, can you table the date on which the internal investigation into Botler's allegations was launched? Could you table that for this committee?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We can provide the date.
To your other question about legal fees, can you repeat the question?
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Why wasn't the counsel being provided by the Department of Justice?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I will speak generally about the process.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I applied the policy, and it does contemplate whether there's a conflict of interest. That's in the policy. It sets out the considerations to be made.
Conservative
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Ms. O'Gorman, in your calendar there are multiple visits to the address 80 Wellington. While this building is on Wellington Street, it's not 80 Wellington Street; 80 Wellington is the Prime Minister's Office. These visits are interspersed or spaced around your times appearing at ArriveCAN hearings for the government operations committee. For example, before your appearance at the government operations committee on October 24 last year, you visited the Prime Minister's Office at 2 p.m. Then you walked across the street and sat down to take questions. The next morning you were back at the Prime Minister's Office. Whom did you meet with at these meetings?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I have not met with the Prime Minister. The Privy Council Office is in that building. I would have been at 80 Wellington to attend meetings with colleagues in the Privy Council Office.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
None of your meetings at 80 Wellington had any relation to the ArriveCAN scandal or your testimony at this committee.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
No. I have spoken to colleagues in the Privy Council Office about ArriveCAN. Certainly, there's a big public profile to ArriveCAN. They've had questions. However, you're linking specific meetings and specific appearances here that have no relation to one another. I have come to give this testimony free of putting anything by anybody else. The suggestion that I would have been meeting with the Privy Council Office in advance of this meeting is not accurate. My calendar shows many meetings at 80 Wellington.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You did meet with people at that office before this meeting, so it is accurate to suggest that. It's an assertion of fact. You just said that it is inaccurate to say that you met there before this meeting.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Well, it's certainly interesting that your appearances at the Privy Council Office or the Prime Minister's Office are directly around your appearances at this committee.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I think you will see many meetings at 80 Wellington around all sorts of other meetings.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You said that you spoke to colleagues in the Privy Council Office about this meeting.
Did you speak about your testimony at this committee with folks at the PCO?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I didn't say that I met with colleagues about this meeting. I did indicate that I was coming.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Just give a yes or no.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I indicated that I was coming, and I shared my opening remarks with them. They acknowledged receipt.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
On October 13, 2022, there was a meeting in your calendar with Public Services and Procurement Canada and the CBSA on ArriveCAN.
Did you attend that meeting?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Can you repeat the title of the meeting?
