Government Operations Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Bill Matthews]

Again, the Treasury Board Secretariat is not involved in those determinations, so I cannot really give you good answers to these questions.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

You had no role to play whatsoever in this.

[Bill Matthews]

The Treasury Board Secretariat did not.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

What's the relationship going to look like between the DIA and the Treasury Board going forward?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

The DIA is an agency within the department. We have rules and regulations in place across all agencies, and the same rules apply to every organization.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

Okay.

Your colleague, the Secretary of State for Defence Procurement, says the agency will deal with all purchases over $100 million. On the approvals process, he said, “We don’t have to go to the Treasury Board a million times. We can just do it.”

Does this mean you will no longer have oversight on this?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Through you, Chair, that doesn't say there's no oversight. Of course, the Treasury Board has an oversight policy implemented.

At defence, we have committed to making historic investments to secure our border sovereignty. Since I've come to the Treasury Board, I've been trying to streamline the process to remove the barriers and cut the waiting times so that we can process more quickly. We should be able to provide the tools to our armed forces more quickly so that they can protect our borders and secure our sovereignty, but that doesn't mean that we don't have oversight.

Thank you.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

I'm glad you answered that, sir, because the Secretary of State for Defence Procurement went on to say, “We're going to move at the speed of relevance to meet the moment”. From your perspective, you're saying that you're going to have relevance.

It doesn't appear to me that you're going to have any relevance if it comes to the Secretary of State for Defence Procurement when he's in charge of procurement over $100 million or more, because he doesn't want to come back to see you. You hold the cheque and you hold the purse strings, but it doesn't seem like he's abiding by that.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Through you, Chair, there is a check and balance. There is oversight.

For the understanding of my colleague, I would ask Bill to explain how that system works and how we can have oversight on that.

[Bill Matthews]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair, just so I can give a good answer?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's Mr. Gill's time so—

[Bill Matthews]

Okay. I'll be as quick as I can.

The bottom line, as the minister has already said, is that the Treasury Board policies apply to all departments and special operating agencies. They are the same rules. Special operating agencies can, though, as can departments, come in and ask for exceptions to Treasury Board policy, which special operating agencies have done in the past so that they could get additional authorities.

This new organization will be bringing its planned procurements to Treasury Board ministers for approval. We are hoping to streamline the way Treasury Board deals with these things, but it's still very early days for this new organization.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, sir, for that answer.

I have a quick question for Mr. Lightbound.

Given that you voted against recouping money from GC Strategies for arrive scam, how can Canadians be assured that you're getting the best value for their hard-earned taxpayer dollars, sir?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Our government has acted to ensure that all of the Auditor General's recommendations based on the lessons learned from the ArriveCAN app have been implemented. Canadians can rest assured that the rules in place allow for better data collection and more transparency. We also make sure that the rules are followed.

Then we went further. The Office of Supplier Integrity and Compliance has banned GC Strategies from obtaining contracts with the federal government for the next seven years. I think that should be quite reassuring for the people listening to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Ms. Sudds, please go ahead.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

My first question is for Minister Ali.

As a member of Parliament here in Ottawa and representing Kanata, I have many constituents who are public servants, of course, and who I hear from on a regular basis on a variety of different issues. I myself had the pleasure of being a public servant for the first 13 years of my career.

Interestingly enough, last weekend, I had a conversation with a constituent who works at ESDC. She was sharing with me that there's a voluntary list right now to which employees are able to add their names if they wish to be considered for a position or an opportunity in DND.

I thought it was really interesting that this is happening right now. I'd love to hear any more that you can share on this initiative or the steps we're taking to ensure highly skilled public servants have opportunities in areas where we are investing.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Through you, Chair, I thank my colleague.

As you know, we're making historic investments. We're taking bold action and delivering results. We're making historic investments in our Canadian Armed Forces, in Build Canada Homes and in infrastructure, the priorities that matter most to Canadians, which means there are thousands of high-quality jobs, with maybe thousands of jobs here in Ottawa. There would be plenty of opportunities. The CER, the comprehensive expenditure review, is an exercise in finding savings and reassigning those resources to priorities that matter most to Canadians. That is the goal and that is the focus we have.

I'll pass it on to my deputy to shed more light on that specifically, please.

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, there are maybe two points here. One is that what ESDC is doing is totally voluntary. It makes perfect sense. It makes good sense, because National Defence is hiring. Most public servants are aware of that and are sending their CVs or applying for jobs as they become open. That's an informal thing.

We also have formal mechanisms, because there are occasions when departments are downsizing—there's already some going on—where you can be put on a list to formally be considered for any job openings.

Maybe I'll ask my colleague, Francis, to elaborate on that.

[Francis Trudel, Associate Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you.

I would simply add that the regime of staffing in the public service is managed by an agency called the Public Service Commission. Because they have pocketed hiring in the public service currently, DND being one of the most important, the Public Service Commission has also put some informal mechanisms in place to try to do matchmaking in order for employees to raise their hand and say they're interested. We can actually try to secure continuous employment for employees who are interested in making that transition.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata, ON]

That's amazing. It's great to hear. A constituent I was speaking with was quite excited about that program and that opportunity.

Minister Lightbound, we haven't talked about Centre Block yet today. Centre Block holds symbolic and cultural importance for Canadians. There's a tremendous amount of work under way. I'm looking forward to a tour I have scheduled for next week. I can't wait to get in and see the progress.

I'm wondering if you can share some of the measures that are being taken to preserve the historical significance of Centre Block while also modernizing it to fit the needs of today.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you for your question.

It is true that the parliamentary precinct as a whole is hugely important, particularly to our democracy and our country. It's a fundamental symbol. The renovation work on Centre Block is, if I'm not mistaken, the largest construction site in the country. They're making good progress.

I will now ask my deputy minister to give you a more detailed update, because I know she has been following the work for a long time.

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for the question.

I think you asked a little bit about what we're doing on the heritage aspects of Centre Block, and in fact the whole parliamentary precinct. I think the first thing to do is—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have to interrupt you. We are out of time. Perhaps you could provide it in writing.

Those are my most favourite words today: Please get back to us in writing.

Madam Gaudreau has two and a half minutes. Then we'll go to Mrs. Block, after which Mr. Watchorn will finish up.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to point out that the documentation we receive is complementary, because it may contain additional information about a question we have asked. We actually read everything, because that's our job.

My question is for Mr. Shafqat Ali, the President of the Treasury Board.

You are the manager of public funds. From what we're hearing, we're moving towards a prepandemic system. By that I mean “austerity” and “job losses”.

There are people watching us today, and that's why I'd like to know how many people will be affected by what seems like a major rationalization.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Through the chair, I thank you for the question.

First of all, I would like to thank all our public servants for their commitment and dedication. They play a pivotal role in delivering services to Canadians. I'd like to thank them for their service.

As my colleague knows, in the comprehensive expenditure review that we've launched along with my colleague the Minister of Finance, we have received proposals from over 100 organizations. They are being reviewed. No decisions have been made. I will share the information as soon as possible.