Government Operations Committee on May 5th, 2026

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you very much. That's a great question.

I think the importance of the efficient use of taxpayer dollars cannot be overstated. In my opinion, it's a question of Canadians' trust in their institutions, in their government. It's essential for Canadians to get results and to see that their money is being well managed by government.

I would say that there are two components to what we have done in this regard over the past year.

The first component is horizontal, where each department was asked to look at how it could be more efficient in its own internal processes. I touched on this earlier in response to a question from Mrs. Block.

Within my department, that has led to savings of almost $700 million for the next four years. There have also been some impressive results from Shared Services Canada, which also went through this exercise, as all departments have. Among other things, it means that we will be able to save $60 billion over the next three years, as reflected in the spring economic update and the 2025 budget. I think I said horizontal, but I meant vertical, meaning that each department reviews its own process.

The second component is a willingness to look horizontally at what can be done.

In this regard, I am very proud to see for instance that Shared Services Canada and Public Works and Procurement Canada are looking at initiatives to save money by using technological tools that can be used by all departments.

I can give you the example of a tool that was developed right here in my department called GCtranslate. This tool makes it possible to translate, with a great deal of expertise and accuracy, and at a much lower cost, the incredible volume of documents that the Government of Canada is called upon to process. That already results in savings. Once the tool is rolled out horizontally across all departments, the potential savings will be close to $100 million. Those are considerable savings.

That's just one example. I think there are other examples of the kind of thing that we want to see more or less everywhere in the machinery of government.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I want to further build on your answer to that question, to the value of the services that the civil servants provide. Having worked in municipal government for a while, and seeing the dedication and commitment that members who work in the public service provide, I would ask this: How are the actions that you and your department are taking respecting the value the civil service gives to Canadians?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I think I alluded to that in my remarks.

One of the priorities I am responsible for in my department is ensuring that the payroll system runs smoothly. No one in Canada is unaware of what has happened with the Phoenix pay system over the past 10 or 12 years. We are now seeing a significant reduction in the infamous backlog. It's dropping steadily from month to month.

Just as importantly, we are in the process of transitioning to the new Dayforce pay system, and we have learned from past mistakes. We are taking one step at a time, making sure that everything is working as it should, rather than doing what we did in the past with Phoenix: deploying the software across the entire government all at once, with the problems we experienced.

For my part, my priority is to reduce the backlog and to make sure that the transition to the new system is done smoothly, and for the benefit of the public servants on whom we rely to carry out essential work for Canadians.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I want to switch to the use of consultants within the federal government, within the civil service. I worked as a consulting engineer for many years. Oftentimes, when we're hiring consultants in the public sector, they are experts in the field. My question for you is this: What level of consultants are working in engineering and architecture versus in management or financial? When hiring external consultants, what consideration does your ministry take to determine whether the job can be done in-house or whether we need to hire an external consultant?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

That's a good question. Much has been written about the use of outside consultants.

There are various categories of outside consultants, but I think we have to remember one thing.

In my department, Public Works and Procurement Canada, for example, most of the outside consultants are engineering, architecture and construction firms. They help us with projects, such as the major projects we have here at the Parliamentary Precinct. They are also responsible for decontaminating contaminated sites. Outside management consultants account for a tiny portion of all government contracts.

In addition, I can tell you that the number of contracts with outside management consultants at Public Works and Procurement Canada has dropped by 36% from one year to the next.

At Shared Services Canada, there has been a 75% reduction. They represent a very small portion of contracts with consultants. As I said, they are much more often for architectural, engineering and consulting engineering work, that is to say major infrastructure work, such as the work we are overseeing at the Parliamentary Precinct.

Ms. Reza, I don't know if you'd like to add anything to that, because you've worked on this a lot.

[Arianne Reza, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

It's—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid that's past our time, so no, you have nothing to add.

We'll go to Madame Gaudreau, please, for six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here.

I'll start with digital providers. Digital providers from the U.S. account for $3.17 billion in expenditures. Minister, are you committed to growing Quebec's and Canada's information technology sectors to reduce dependence on the American government, among other things?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Yes, I am 100% committed to that. It won't always be possible, but, overall, we want to build that digital infrastructure in Canada and Quebec, and we want to encourage Canadian innovation.

That gives me an opportunity to talk about a policy that I'm very proud of. Since December 16, the “Buy Canadian” policy has applied to virtually all federal government contracts over $25 million. The policy has two main criteria. The first requires a Canadian supplier. So we are giving Canadian suppliers an advantage. In that regard, we look at the supplier's real economic activity.

What is most important, though, is that we give points for Canadian content when awarding contracts. That can be research and development, intellectual property or jobs. This is fundamental, because people sometimes think that some suppliers are foreign, even though they have a very real presence. What we want is to encourage investment here. I'm not referring to any specific procurement right now, but I'm thinking of IBM Canada, for example. I was at their facility in Bromont where they have 1,000 employees. What we want is to encourage investment, encourage companies that have a real presence in Canada. That is what defines the “Buy Canadian” policy.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Yes, I'd like to continue on that topic. Is the Alto project subject to the “Buy Canadian” policy or not?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

That's generally the case where possible, but since Alto is a consortium, the structure is a little different. Nonetheless, the “Buy Canadian” policy—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

What does that mean? People want to know.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

It means that, yes, the policy would generally apply to Alto when it moves forward on contracts, because all Crown corporations are subject to the “Buy Canadian” policy. The only limitation is that we must have the production capacity here in Canada. The rationale behind that is that, if there is no capacity, we want it to be created. We want businesses to have a real incentive to invest in Canada.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Okay. All the components are often part of a system. I'm not an expert, but I know that in Quebec, we have ballast, ties and metal components, for instance. I'm afraid that people will say that we bought Canadian because we bought drills at Canadian Tire.

Can we get that information in writing? There are people you know very well who are listening to us right now. Davie and Via Rail want to make sure that this policy is not only respected, but that it demonstrates—

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

The policy has been in effect since December 16, so all procurement after that date is subject to the policy. That's true for departments and Crown corporations, and thus for the federal government.

I'd like to respond to something you just said. One of the problems is that, in the past, we could look at procurement and say that 90% of our suppliers were Canadian. Before the policy came into effect though, to be a Canadian supplier, you had to have an address in Canada and file your tax returns in Canada. Now, what we want is real economic activity in the country, Canadian content and Canadian materials, such as Canadian steel, aluminum, copper and wood. That's really the goal of the policy.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'd also like to have details on the percentage and the criteria, because, like it or not, that's the topic of the day. I'm thinking for instance of Alstom, which you want to help. What is being done? It's already present in a number of regions in Canada. What is the company being told?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

We tell them the greater their presence, the more likely they are to win contracts with the Government of Canada.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Okay. Have you set specific targets regarding economic benefits for Quebec in terms of jobs, contracts and local content?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Are you talking about the “Buy Canadian” policy?

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Yes.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

It depends. I can't invent needs. It depends on the needs of our client departments, such as the Coast Guard and the navy, the various departments, such as the Department of Transport, or Crown corporations.

Over half a billion dollars in contracts has been awarded under the “Buy Canadian” policy since it came into effect. In all, bids submitted under the policy amount to approximately $3.5 billion.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Okay.

I still have 30 seconds left.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I don't want to take away your opportunity for another question, but I'd like to add something.

We can explain the policy's importance by looking at government procurement in Canada as a whole. All government procurement, whether it's federal, provincial, municipal, public administration and schools, represents about 14% of GDP. This is where government procurement leverage becomes very interesting.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'll come back to that later.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Go ahead, Mr. Patzer, for five minutes, please.