Government Operations Committee on Sept. 24th, 2026

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

From what I understand, this is a request for decentralization, in particular to make mental health, support and other services accessible.

Did I understand correctly?

[Justin McKay]

I wouldn't say decentralization but maybe a more concerted effort in rural areas for those services. Even on the public health side, we struggle with those services in our area because we are rural. It could be a concerted effort on both sides as well.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

In the few seconds I have left, I'm going to ask Ms. Smith‑McCrossin a question.

As members of Parliament, how can we prevent a department from presenting a ready-made project? What would keep you from being left out of the loop? These are dealings where, for decades, people in the community were abandoned. That's how it works.

What should we include in the report to avoid what you've been going through for so long?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

Thank you. It's a great question.

I think the very first thing is to consult with veterans. Even before this motion was brought forward.... Have a conversation with veterans in our community, because veterans have been telling me ever since I was first elected provincially that they were not happy about reservists being taken away from our community. They were never consulted, but even our local politicians and federal members of Parliament were not told. Back in the day, in 2017, this letter that came to Russell Clarke.... I have a copy of it in case anybody wants it. The member of Parliament at that time was blindsided as well. Even in 2020, when Lenore Zann was our MP, she was blindsided. They weren't even communicated with.

Start with communication at the local level, specifically about housing and support services. Talk to people like Justin. They're the people we should be having the conversations with first.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, we would like to get the document that Ms. Smith‑McCrossin mentioned.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

If you could provide that to our clerk, that would be great.

We'll now go to Mr. Mazier, please, for five minutes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, guests.

Ms. Smith-McCrossin, I have the letter here that you were referring to earlier from the federal government. It's dated June 27, 2017, and it was signed on behalf of the Liberal defence minister at the time. It was sent to a local veteran, Mr. Russell Clarke, who wrote to the minister about the future of the Amherst armoury.

The letter states, “critical repairs were undertaken in 2010 to stabilize the building”. It also says, “There are no plans to undertake further repairs as the intention is to dispose of the property.”

In 2017, the Liberal government told your community, in writing, that it was done fixing the building. It was done in 2017. For some unknown reason, the Liberal government decided that. Is that how you read this?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

Yes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

You and your local veterans reported water coming through the roof into a steel drum that was overflowing. Did the federal government ever fix that?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

Let me back up a little bit. That's something that happened in more recent years. As our mayor referenced, back during the days when this letter was written, in 2017, if you were to go into the building, you would not know there were any problems. It was a strong, structurally sound, beautiful armoury.

Back in 1993, a caretaker from the armoury told us that work was done by DND to the sandstone. It was well known by the community and the department that the wrong mortar was used. That was never fixed. I have a draft condition assessment that was done in 2011. That's the only document we have. It talked then about work that the department needed to do on the armoury. That work was never done. When they shut it down during the pandemic without any notice to anyone, our MP at that time was not happy. She let the department and the Prime Minister know that. The armoury, even though they said it was unsafe, was opened up within days. They made a commitment to do work, and repairs were—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

I'll just bring you back to the line of questioning. Obviously, this has a legacy. Even the work done in the 1990s was not up to par. Meanwhile, they gave you notice in 2017. There were no more repairs. They were just going to watch it rot.

As a follow-up, they never did fix the leak into the barrel. Is that right?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

That is correct.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

I think you've answered this already, but in July 2025, when the building was closed again—this time for mould, surprisingly enough, with a barrel leaking with water—was the community given any notice on that?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

No.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

Okay.

Let's make sure we have this right as a committee. The federal government says it won't fix the Amherst armoury. The roof leaks for years—not just a little bit, but for years. Water gets in. Then Ottawa closes Amherst armoury because of mould.

Is that an accurate summary?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

Yes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

Ms. Smith-McCrossin, in April 2024 the Liberal government listed Amherst armoury in the federal budget as a property with potential for housing. It's been years since the announcement. Since then, has anything happened?

[Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin]

No, nothing has happened since then.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

In 2026, the Liberal MP for Cumberland—Colchester introduced a motion not to fix the armoury or to reopen it but to hold a study. That's exactly why we're here today. When this study wraps up, it will lead to a report. Earlier this week, the Liberal MP who sponsored this study stated that she hopes the study will lead to—be ready—“the creation of a framework”. How very action-oriented.

We have a budget with an announcement. Then we have a motion for a study. Then we have a study for a report, and now maybe a framework to follow the budget, the motion, the study and the report. You wonder why nothing's getting done by this government. I find it quite puzzling. Now all of a sudden there are more ideas. There seems to be lots of talk, but no action.

What do you think about this approach?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid there's no time left for an answer, but perhaps in the next round....

We are going to Mr. Danko now for five minutes.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

To start my remarks, I'd like to thank MP Hirtle for bringing this important issue forward and using all the levers available to her to try to find a solution for the community that works for everyone. As the mayor said, I think it could be a really positive space in the community for veterans. It's something the community can be proud of, and it can also provide important services, including housing.

Ms. Blackburn, maybe I'll start with you and try to broaden this discussion a bit to the big picture from your experience of what veterans need when they come out of the service. You have a lot of experience in providing emergency food services. You also spoke very eloquently, I thought, about your vision for what housing services are required. We also heard Mr. McKay, I think it was, talk about the need for wraparound supports and mental health care treatment for some of the issues that veterans may have when they're in the community.

I'd like to give you the opportunity to talk about the big picture and what it is that we should be helping veterans with in terms of housing.

[Marie Blackburn]

We're still at the point where we have so many veterans who just can't afford housing. We're working with the federal government right now with the veteran homelessness program, where they're funding us so that we can situate veterans from homelessness into housing. They have given us $1.4 million a year, but that's to support four provinces, which isn't really.... It works, but it's not addressing all of the veterans' needs.

With our programs through the VHP—and prior to that when we had our own without any federal money—we always provide food services and getting veterans from homelessness into homes, but the biggest thing is preventing homelessness. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on rent, on wraparound services such as utilities and on whatever kinds of bills are going to stop them from being in a situation where they'll be struggling. We've worked on this for eight years now, and we're seeing a lot of headway, but at the end of the day, we are spending so much money with the increased amounts in the rents for our rental properties, rents for veterans, utility bills, food costs—everything.

Then, on this idea that Alana and I talked about at one time, if we had federal government buildings that could be donated, wouldn't that be nice? We could utilize those for, as Mr. McKay said, the full wraparound of services. In our organization right now, we have pretty much everything. We have the food services and all the emergency funding services. We have the pet promise program. We have a thrift store where we can put veterans back to work, and anything veterans need in the way of clothing or housing items they can get from there. We have an in-house acupuncturist, an in-house therapist, an in-house dentist, a hairdresser and a massage therapist, who all share an office.

There are just so many resources, and the gentleman up there who was speaking says that in the smaller regions they don't have that kind of access. If they could have a building donated by the federal government that they could utilize to make sure veterans are getting the services they require, that would be an absolutely amazing gesture.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you.

I have a follow-up question for Mayor Small. I don't have a lot of experience with federal surplus lands, but I do have quite a bit of experience with surplus school properties and surplus municipal properties and building those, for adaptive reuse, into housing projects.

One of the challenges, as you know, when we're talking about wraparound services—and I think we've just heard about how important those services are and how extensive they can be—is how important they are to making sure that a housing project is successful. A lot of people have the perception that if we want to solve homelessness or provide housing for veterans or whomever it is...it's not just the building. If you have an empty school or a vacant city property, an office space or whatever it may be, sometimes the public perception is, “Well, if we just had the physical space, the problem is solved,” but it's really the services, the wraparound supports, that are the key to a successful project.

I'm speaking as an Ontario representative. Our experience here is that in those wraparound supports are health care, which makes them a provincial responsibility, so when we are delivering projects, there's also a provincial partnership. Would you be seeking that here as well?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Please give a brief answer if you can.

[Robert Small]

Yes.