Health Committee on Sept. 28th, 2006

[Calla Farn]

First of all, as an industry association we do not deal with the profit levels and revenue side of the products. We can't do that; individual companies may choose to work with their individual customers on that. As an industry, we do provide the customers, the retailers, with what they want.

I will take this back to see if there is anything the member companies can do with their individual retailers. I hear your concern, that package sizes have grown too large in some cases. We give the retailers what they want. If the consumers, the people who actually buy it, don't have a choice in the size, they do have a choice in how much of it they want to drink.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Your time has gone, Mr. St-Cyr, but I'll allow Mr. Freedhoff a quick response.

[Dr. Yoni Freedhoff]

I'm going to say something surprising: in this particular issue, I actually think the role is in education. Consumers drive industry, and I don't think industry would have any hesitation making smaller-sized portions if consumers demanded them.

One of the ways that consumers may start to demand those types of things is if they are given clear guidance and understanding on calories. If they know the calories involved in all of the 750-millilitre containers, and the percentage of their day that they're drinking in two to three minutes, they may demand more smaller-sized portions, like the chubbies that Calla was talking about. I would imagine that's been a consumer-driven thing, and I'm thrilled to see it happening.

[Linda Gillis]

May I add a comment?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Go ahead, Ms. Gillis.

[Linda Gillis]

The other concern is that if we're going to have bottles of pop that have 591 millilitres in them, then why is the nutrition information reporting on 250 millilitres? I think children especially will be misled by that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Yes, good point.

Before we move on, Monsieur St-Cyr, I have one question for you: did you buy the large pop?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

No, I bought water. You're safe with water.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You're at a committee; you must tell the truth here.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Yes, yes, it's true.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Mr. Dykstra, you have five minutes.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

I was flipping through the FCPC book. It's pretty good in terms of providing at least overall information about the type of food you should be eating. One of the things I've been doing, at least on the weekends whenever I'm at home, is just reading labels. I obviously didn't pay a whole lot of attention prior to maybe a couple of years ago; you're careful about what you eat based on what you hear from folks and what you read about, versus reading what's actually in there.

I know the chair may not consider me one of the brightest people in caucus, but I certainly don't think I'm at the other end either. One of the difficulties I had, really and truly, is understanding what is in anything I eat. Aside from how many calories are in it and the trans fat issue, there is really no descriptor to me, and this is what I find so ironic. You say on page 13 to look at the label. Basically, when you look at the label you have to get a magnifying class to actually see what you're taking in.

The frustrating part for me is that I don't know what three-quarters of the things are that are actually on the label itself, and then I need to get a magnifying glass to read what I don't know. There's all of this talk about the direction we need to take, and I'm not sure how much it has to do, at the end of the day, with restaurants as with having a pretty clear understanding of what I'm consuming and putting into my body.

[Linda Gillis]

May I comment on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Absolutely. Go ahead, Ms. Gillis.

[Linda Gillis]

I think that highlights the point that we don't have enough education about childhood obesity. The program I am in is one of the only ones in all of Canada. There are other programs starting, but they're not there yet. I think that really highlights that we need more education on label reading and food.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Ms. Tanaka.

[Phyllis Tanaka]

With respect to our program, one of the things I wanted to point out in the short time we had to present today is that one of the things the food and beverage industry does is support the education component. It's true that unless you come with some education concerning what that label and those 13 core nutrients are about, it's pretty hard to just do it cold.

I come from a science background—I'm a dietician by training—so I can't be objective when I look at it with the eyes of the average consumer. That's one of the reasons I'm personally quite happy that we support the Healthy Eating is in Store for You program I mentioned. It's because, for the average consumer to really utilize the label, there is an element that's called education that a person has to take themselves through. There isn't a simple answer to it, except—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I guess I would disagree; I think there is. I think you need a new approach to labelling.

I know that Yoni wants to make a point.

The frustrating part for me is that we talk a lot about.... For example, the newspaper industry is right at a grade 7, grade 8, or grade 9 level; it's a general version of what everyone can understand. You've all described here the varying degree of importance that needs to be placed on a number of different segments and areas in our society. If you're saying this is what has to be on the label, and therefore the only people who can understand it are professionals like you, then we have a long way to go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Mr. Freedhoff.

[Dr. Yoni Freedhoff]

I agree with you 100% in terms of the food label. It is confusing. It deals with micronutrients--the vitamins, minerals, etc.

What we know now about diet and its relationship with chronic disease is that what matters more than concerning ourselves entirely with ensuring that we get enough of our micronutrients is the fact that there are some foods that are healthier to eat than others--whole grains versus refined grains, fish versus meat. The World Health Organization put forth a technical report on this. I believe it's technical report 619, but I might be wrong with the number. I could certainly get it for you.

That report states that we need to be focusing on simpler messages that say such things as minimize red meat; minimize white flour, white rice, sugar, soft drinks, sweets, etc. That's exactly what is done in the healthy eating pyramid. That way you don't need a degree in dietetics to go to the supermarket. You don't need to memorize what is going to be become, if it's released, an eight-page food guide.

When my dietician and I met with Health Canada, we were told by Health Canada that the foods we chose in creating our test diets were wrong. It was a dietician who was choosing these foods. It was apparently wrong to choose ancient grains. That wasn't supposed to happen. We chose things like quinoa. We were told that it was wrong to choose avocados. We were told that it was wrong to choose walnuts. These were not what was expected to be part of this food guide. It needs to be simpler. It needs to be something people can remember and not just relegate to something they remember seeing. It needs to have 10 to 15 distinct, unambiguous messages that will help protect their health and minimize the risk of chronic disease.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Our time is tight, but we'll allow a little more.

[Phyllis Tanaka]

Thank you.

I don't think my message was understood clearly. I was giving you a reference point by saying that I can't be objective because I have the training I have. I think the nutrition facts table is a valuable tool for the average Canadian to have to go to the grocery store and to use for product comparison. I agree that you have to be informed, and you have to know how to read it. There are education programs and materials available for a person to learn to use that nutrition fact table effectively.

The second point I want to make is that it is but one tool. It's only one tool. There is no single tool out there that's going to make a person fully informed. It's one in a contingent of tools that we need to use.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

To comment on Mr. Dykstra's comment from the chair, I would never question an honourable colleague's intelligence, but it's obvious his eyesight is challenged.

Nancy, you have five minutes.