Health Committee on Nov. 4th, 2009

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Are you getting the translation?

[Diane Bergeron]

Yes, I have it now. I'm getting it in English.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Good.

At the present time, do you travel by air with your guide dog?

[Diane Bergeron]

Yes.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

My next question is for all the other witnesses.

In your view, should Ms. Bergeron be able to continue travelling with her guide dog because she needs it in order to move around?

Yes, go ahead, Ms. Allen.

[Mary Allen]

Yes, I think so. But if the allergic person knows in advance that the dog will be there, he or she can make alternative arrangements. That's what we're suggesting. We would never deny the service dog's right to be there.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

If my understanding is correct, this means that air carriers will have to ensure better coordination and not have on the same flight people who require a guide dog to move around and people who are truly allergic or who have asthma.

[Mary Allen]

Yes, exactly.

Better communication.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

In your view, Ms. MacDonald, is this possible or can it be considered?

[Joan MacDonald]

There are all sorts of possible measures that can be taken. At this point it would be premature for me to speculate about what decision the agency might come up with.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Do you know when that decision will come down?

[Joan MacDonald]

We're still at the early stages. We're in the process of receiving les plaidoiries from the applicants and from the carriers. So there's a process where the evidence is exchanged and comments are provided by both parties. In this case, we have two carriers, so there are multiple parties.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Vice-Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Judy Wasylycia-Leis]

Merci.

Jill, do you want to comment on any of this before we go on?

[Jill Frigon]

With regard to the last remark, about allowing service dogs on aircrafts, I have a degree in adapted physical activity and have worked with people with disabilities, and I think absolutely it is a need. A lot of it has to do with risk reduction.

Jennifer Schenkel, from the Lung Association, also pointed out that 25% of the WestJet flights have cats or dogs on them that are not service animals. Just minimizing that number would be significant in itself.

So we're not suggesting that service dogs in any way, shape, or form should not be allowed on the aircraft, but rather, that risk reduction would benefit greatly people like myself.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Judy Wasylycia-Leis]

Thank you very much, Jill.

Now we'll go to Pat Davidson, with the Conservatives.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Vice-Chair.

Thanks very much to all of our presenters with us by teleconference or here in person. Certainly this is an interesting subject this afternoon.

Practically everyone we look at sitting around this table spends quite a bit of time in the air, so it's something that has certainly crossed my mind many times. As recently as Thanksgiving weekend, when I was flying home after my week here, I could not believe the number of pets that were on that plane. It's not usual that I see this, but that day, whether there were a lot of people going for Thanksgiving with families who were taking their pets along or whatever the reasons were, there were several pets on that plane.

It crossed my mind several times that I was glad it was me and not my sister on that flight, because she is very highly allergic to cats. It's an interesting conversation we're having here as to what her recourse would have been had she been seated on that plane. Actually, one of the cats was sitting in the seat right in front of me, so I was in very close proximity.

What I'm hearing is that, really, the person who has the allergy does not have a lot of recourse, unless there is a place they can move to that's maybe not in quite as close proximity. But as far as changing tickets, and then disrupting their plans, too...and I'm not so sure that's totally fair to do.

Would anybody like to comment on the availability of passenger choices?

[Mary Allen]

We only have two carriers in the country, or mainly two carriers; I think someone just said that 90% of the airline business is done through WestJet and Air Canada. When you put that together with the fact that, as Dr. Schellenberg said, it's a big country, you can see that we have an extra challenge here. Consumers don't have a lot of choice.

As I think everyone has said, we need to have some kinds of procedures put in place to reduce risk and improve advance knowledge of whether there's a pet on board or not. I think that's really crucial. It will take some planning.

[Dr. Robert Schellenberg]

Yes, I would echo that. In a lot of areas of the country, including for Jill from Saskatchewan, there's very limited choice in terms of flights. It's a great inconvenience if you're going to be hours later because of having to take another flight if you don't have that information ahead of time.

The other point I'd like to raise, though, is that we shouldn't base opinions and decisions on the degree of complaints to the Transportation Agency, because I think they're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Those of us on the front lines hear daily complaints in regard to this. Most of those people will never carry it forth to any regulatory agency.

I think it's very important to really consider the prevalence of this problem, because all of us have family members or friends who are allergic to cats and dogs.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I think that's a very good point.

Ms. Bergeron, thank you very much for your presentation. Certainly I think that what you've told us is of great importance. I was glad to hear the rest of the presenters agree that there is a huge difference between a service animal and a pet and that as far as restrictions go, there should be a distinction along those lines.

I have just one question. I hope I don't appear to be disrespectful, but one thing I have been asked several times is why you need the service animal right next to you. If you're on an airplane, would there not be an attendant who could help you if you had to move, if you had to get up and walk to the bathroom, say, or something like that?

[Diane Bergeron]

It's a very good question.

There's a team-building exercise that a lot of people do. I don't know if you've ever had the chance to do it. You're blindfolded, and you have somebody guide you around. The game is to build trust. Most people realize that as they're walking, they don't have trust, even sometimes with people they're married to or are related to. It helps to build the trust factor.

I travelled here independently. If I'm travelling independently, and I am walking through an unfamiliar airport and have had to put my dog in the cargo hold--let's put the dog's situation aside--I am now putting my own health and safety at risk. I have to trust somebody I've never met. It is just some stranger who works for the airline who is going to walk me through and get me on a plane. If something happens, and we have to get off the plane in an emergency, I am required to wait until somebody can come and get me.

With my dog, I can get to the plane and get on the plane. I can go to the bathroom. I can function independently. When the door is opened and I can get off the plane, I can walk off the plane just like everybody else and go through the airport. In many situations, I don't even wait for passenger assistance. I just go. I tell my dog to follow and he follows the crowd all the way out of the airport. So it gives me independence and freedom. It gives me an increased quality of life.

The main factor, too, for me, is that if my dog is in cargo, there is undeniably going to be some kind of stress factor for an animal that is used to being at my feet, by my bed, in my office, under my desk, and at all times beside me. I have discussed this with my vet. Last year, I went to London, and there was the question of whether the dog could travel in the cargo hold. My vet said that he could travel in the cargo hold if he was heavily medicated. And it would take a minimum of 24 to 48 hours for the medication to be sufficiently out of his system at the other end for him to work in a safe manner. That would mean that, when getting to the airport at the other end, I could not just throw the harness on the dog and get out of the airport. For the next two days, I would be restricted as to what I could do, unless I had somebody with me to walk me around. Even at that point, again, if it's somebody I don't know, then I'm trusting somebody.

You know, I love my family. But the majority of my family, when they guide me, walk me into things and trip me over things because they're not paying attention the way my dog does.

So it is a safety factor at both ends and on the plane.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much for that answer. I think that should certainly answer any questions anybody has. I think those are extremely valid reasons, and I'm certainly glad I asked you that question.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Judy Wasylycia-Leis]

Go and ask another question and then I'll take my turn.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I'll make it brief.

Ms. MacDonald, you had said that a blanket resolution would be difficult. Why couldn't you just say no to pets in the airplane cabins?

[Joan MacDonald]

That's the very matter that's before the agency right now with the complaints before it, whether or not pets should be allowed in aircraft cabins. That's from the four people who have allergies and have filed that complaint. That's exactly what we're hearing right now.