Health Committee on Nov. 16th, 2009

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Madam Chair, respectfully, we shouldn't be running things by the seat of our pants and changing things week by week. We've agreed on a schedule, and for an individual member to say she would like to change it after the committee has agreed on it is totally inappropriate. If she feels obligated to do a scrum as opposed to her duty here at the committee, I think it's very appropriate to get a substitute for the 15 or 20 minutes that she might be in front of the media on those rare occasions--let me repeat, rare occasions--when there is a 5:15 ringing of the bell.

We've done all this work, so why should we be juggling this around again? We're spending more time hammering out a schedule because one or two opposition members want to change it weekly for their own personal convenience.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

As Ms. Wasylycia-Leis knows, I honestly try to be as flexible as I can. I just did that 15 minutes ago when she needed some time. It has been very frustrating to the clerk, the analyst, and the witnesses. I've had feedback to my office about what's going on in this committee when the program is changed. At the beginning of the year we had a very vigorous schedule that we agreed on. Then we had to change it because of H1N1.

It's also becoming rather frustrating for the witnesses, who are on the ground dealing with H1N1, when we change the game plan. For instance, Dr. Butler-Jones wants to come this week, but if this is changed he will not be available.

So could the committee please take all of this into consideration?

Ms. Neville, you're next.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I've decided to pass.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I want to make two comments.

One, I wasn't asking for any charity this afternoon. I was simply asking you to respect the clock. Our session was to go to five o'clock. I was next on the list and simply asked to be allowed to continue until five o'clock.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

But I did give you extra time.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

That's fine.

I also want you to know, Madam Chair, that if my style isn't to your liking, that's not for you to judge, and to call me rude in front of any of the visitors... That's for me to deal with. If they or the media watching want to call me rude, that's their right. But this is a committee of hard work and--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Complaints have been made to my office about how you treat the witnesses sometimes.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

It's not about tea parties, it's about--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, I want to prevent another message coming to my office yet again about rude treatment of witnesses. We have to be very careful when witnesses come that we give them a chance to answer, and you weren't doing that. So apologies if it appeared to you--

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

The question was asked to Judy to clear up the question, and that's when she came in. So I'm just wondering--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Go ahead.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

On the schedule, some of the items we're dealing with today are new and part of our committee's responsibility. On the question of estimates, perhaps we should have considered that before and included it, but we didn't, so now it's before us. The question of the committee's role and responsibilities in reviewing appointments has been raised for discussion, and a motion is before you on that front.

These are not discretionary items; these are things our committee has responsibility for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I agree about the estimates. That is something I was going to bring up myself at this meeting. As others did, we kind of forgot they were coming. That is a very legitimate request.

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I absolutely agree with my colleague that the supplementary estimates and the notice of motion she brought forward are two different things we hadn't considered. My comments were geared toward the notice of motion by Dr. Bennett that was before us. I believe it's on stuff that we have addressed, and it's another change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Just to be clear, I was uncomfortable with the shortchanging of the H1N1 in a couple of meetings, and therefore my office called the chair's office. She declined to make the change, so that is why there's a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Murray.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I was listening with interest to the debate. I wasn't happy to hear a scolding of anyone on the Liberal side about changing calendars, actually. I remember several times arguing for maintaining a calendar that we had all agreed on, in the face of forceful arguments to insert hearings on things like salt that were not part of the H1N1 month of October. I think that was out of bounds, that scolding.

I would like to make my observation that Dr. Bennett is responding constructively, I think, to what she perceives has been an unanticipated impediment to having full briefings that I know we all want. We can use those constructively to avert problems with H1N1. As we ask questions, they actually do have a benefit in terms of our government's awareness of what might not work.

I wanted to respond to Dr. Carrie's comments, which I thought were completely inappropriate since it's that side that has done some of the rearranging of the schedule. And I think that on our side we're commonly reminding the committee of decisions made about the food policy study, the healthy food study, and the health human resources study and resisting the insertion of new ideas and new requests.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Monsieur Malo.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Yes, Madam Chair.

We are setting up a schedule because we want some reasonable deadlines. However—and I have always said so—I don't want our schedule to be set in stone, with no possibility of making changes. Sometimes, we need to change our schedules because of the realities of day-to-day life. I wouldn't want to see our schedule become set in stone.

You have always agreed with me that our agenda is a very valuable working tool in that it provides us with a certain timeframe, with rules to apply to the various studies that we carry out. However, it is not something that is inflexible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

No, that's very true. Thank you, Monsieur Malo. That's why there's “draft” written across it. The estimates are indeed extremely important.

Is there any more discussion?

Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The only final thing I would add is this. I think it does relate to officials, and I would expect our officials' schedule is like many of ours. It's chock-a-block full, and probably these officials have booked that time in their calendar for the next significant while. To create undue disruption to their schedules, when indeed they're probably already intending to support us, just doesn't make sense to me. I really think we need to respect our officials' schedules.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Could we then agree about this H1N1 briefing? I think the committee would be disappointed if Dr. Butler-Jones could not be at committee, because I have heard from members that they would like to have him there. If we do change it this week, we're not going to be able to have him, so could we—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I've already said that, Madam Chair. I've already said that if he can't be changed this week—