Health Committee on Nov. 16th, 2009

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

But it could well pay off substantially in terms of health care expenses.

[Dr. Katherine Gray-Donald]

Absolutely.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

Does anybody else want to comment?

[Dr. Philip M. Sherman]

When you're looking to make change, one other part is to make sure it has a health economic benefit. So there is the concept that if you reduce salt and you reduce the burden of illness, that could really help to sustain our health care system by reducing costs. So there is a health economic benefit.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I understand that.

My concern is that all of these pieces are not coming together in an aggressive plan or an aggressive outreach. I don't know what it is. You have the data. You referred to it. You spoke about the graphs. You know what's happened in other countries. Why is something not happening faster in Canada? That's my question.

[Dr. Peter Liu]

As I mentioned earlier, the coordinated approach is very important. For example, in terms of having the food sector as partners in this process, a lot of the work at the present time involves engaging the various sectors. While it's easy for us to say we need to reduce sodium, in fact the type of food product we're dealing with is actually very complex. So we need the different groups of food manufacturers to be coordinated in this fashion; otherwise the population just won't pick up on a high-sodium content alternative if the effort is not coordinated from that point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Dr. Liu.

Now we're going to go to Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

I feel very lucky today, because I'm just filling in and I'm so happy to be exposed to such a great conversation and a great topic.

I realize we have a lot of work yet to do, but when we talk about there having been 30 years in which nothing was done, I'm so happy to be part of a government that is starting to do something and to see people like you getting ready and the industry realizing how much we need to do.

As a former educator, I realize that a lot of it has to come from education. Do you have any plans or do you see anything going forth that will specifically help to educate our people, maybe through media or some such means? Could you perhaps elaborate a little bit on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Who would like to make a comment?

[Dr. Katherine Gray-Donald]

I could.

Certainly, media has come up. We've seen examples of a media campaign in a health region that was very good. We need to engage the experts, because that is something you have to do really well, and yes, we're certainly looking to media.

The other part I need to bring up, maybe more to my committee because we haven't discussed it very much, is actually the health professionals. There is a lot being written now. If you read the Canadian Medical Association Journal, there's a lot going out to the doctors, there's a lot going out to the dieticians, but we need to really make sure that's there too, so that when people go to their doctor and say, “Well, how important is this salt stuff?” they get the right answer.

[Christine Lowry]

That's a very good point. Consumers reach out to many different sources for information. Having a comprehensive, collaborative stakeholder communication program to really inform the people on what the key messages are; and to get those out and keep them succinct is very important, and then to get them to consumers, where consumers are.

When we say “media”, that's a very broad brush. As I said before--and I can't say it more emphatically--nutrition literacy is so important, not just for sodium but for all the issues of nutrition and health that Canadians are facing. The more we can educate Canadians on nutrition fundamentals, on how to read the side panel, how to make informed choices, the better off we will be. I think nutrition literacy is key for all of us to be working together in a collaborative approach.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I think your industry deserves a lot of congratulations and support for the work it's doing. We all have to work together. When you realize how little was done for so long, there is that much more we have to do, but I think we're working in the right direction and I'm happy to be part of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Does anybody have any further comments on that?

We'll now go to Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, very briefly.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't have quite the patience that Tilly does. If you're not prepared to agree to some sort of regulated standards and mandatory targets, I'd like to see what else you might be prepared to do, because I think Canadian consumers are way ahead of you. They would really like to know what they're eating. They've been listening to this health information for years and expect some action.

I just want to say that I doubt that in fact trans fats would have been acted on without that kind of outcry from Parliament and the public. In fact, the numbers didn't start to change until a couple of years ago, when Parliament threatened mandatory action. For you to say that you're taking action on a voluntary basis, it's just not evident.

In fact, if you had been listening to the health experts over the last 30 years who have been talking about sodium, you would have gradually voluntarily reduced your sodium content a few percentages, a few milligrams, every year in all your products. You wouldn't be talking today about having to suddenly deal with this leaping from 3,500 milligrams on a daily basis to 1,200 and only coming up with 2,300. I think you have to come up with more than that.

I'd like to ask two questions, quickly.

To the CIHR folks, I wonder why you're not taking a more proactive position. I'm almost tempted to ask, as I did in the House today, if there's anyone from the food manufacturing business on your board who might be tempering your remarks.

And I want to ask Christine and Catherine that if they won't agree to mandatory targets, will they at least listen to consumers and agree to mandatory front-of-pack warning labels for high-sodium products? Surely you can't disagree with that since Canadians want to know what they're eating. Will you agree at least that the recommended daily value for sodium specified in the food and drug regulations should be in fact 1,500 and not 2,400, even if you're not prepared to move on targets? Would you agree that serving sizes and nutrition facts—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis? Do you want an answer?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

—should be based on the standardized referenced amount specific in schedule M of the food and drugs regulations and not left to your discretion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Does anyone want to comment?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

One from CIHR and then quickly from Catherine and Christine.

[Dr. Philip M. Sherman]

I'm sorry, what was your question?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Why aren't you taking a tougher stance on this? You're the health researchers. You have all the information. Why are you so temperate in terms of education and voluntary approaches and collaboration that goes on for three years?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I've given you some time, and you're being rude. Please don't do that.

Can you go ahead, please, Dr. Sherman?

[Dr. Philip M. Sherman]

So the question was whether we have anybody on our board who is a member of the food industry. The answer is that we have lots of interactions. We have an institute advisory board of 16 members, and it has a pharmaceutical representative but not a food industry representative. I certainly do interact, and members of my advisory board do, because we look to work in partnership and not in a confrontational or adversarial way. We are trying to work together to lower sodium and improve the health of Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Dr. Sherman.

I want to say a special thank you to all the panel today. You've come here as our guests, and we very much appreciate your input.

We'll now suspend the meeting for two minutes, and then we'll go into a business meeting.

Mr. Malo.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Madam Chair, earlier our NDP colleague requested that parts of the testimony given by a witness be stricken from the record. I would just like to give you two reasons why I object to this.

Firstly, when we invite witnesses here, we must be open-minded and accept their full testimony. I wouldn't want us to become censors.

Secondly, the witness appeared to give us some examples. Even when the sodium content is reduced, consumers seem to prefer these products.

We would like to see more companies, more manufacturers reduce the amount of sodium in products that consumers still enjoy in spite of everything. When we realize that 75% of all of the sodium consumed comes from processed products, examples like these should make people want to... In my opinion, Ms. Obrien's comments should not be stricken from the record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera.]

[Public proceedings resume.]