Health Committee on May 4th, 2010

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

But you have no idea of the specific percentage of sodium they could consume? It may be 20% of a Canadian's food for a normal day, but it might actually represent around 50% of the sodium intake.

[Ron Reaman]

I do not have that answer for you. It's not available to me.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Fine, thank you very much.

Ms. Tanaka, you were telling us earlier that each company has its own strategy for reducing sodium. I just have a few quick questions for you.

First, in your organization, do you have a mechanism that allows you to oversee what companies are doing internally? Do you have any idea how their strategies are working? Are there companies that actually do not have a sodium reduction strategy? What do you do when a company does not have one? Do you provide assistance to those companies to allow them to develop a viable plan to reduce sodium? Do you have an idea of the amount of money that companies might spend on research to find a substitute that will allow sodium to be reduced?

Finally, could you tell me what you think about what Dr. Pipe told us earlier about a labeling system, perhaps modelled on the one in Finland or Great Britain? Would Canadian companies be prepared for a labeling system like that?

[Phyllis Tanaka]

With respect to monitoring our individual member companies, that isn't a role of a trade association. However, through the multi-stakeholder working group the fourth step in our game plan is one of monitoring the progress of the food industry against sodium reduction targets. That's part of the game plan of the working group. But as a trade association it isn't our role to monitor the corporate business of our members.

Secondly, we do provide support to our member companies. We have a sodium committee, as I mentioned in my earlier remarks. Through that sodium committee I keep the members apprised of the working group. It was through our sodium committee that we were involved in the public consultation the working group had to discuss moving forward with a strategy. We have a very important facilitative role in allowing our members to stay tuned into what's going on so they know how to act accordingly. It's through FCPC that we made sure members knew of Health Canada's pending discussions with industry that are going on right now to review targets for the different food categories. That is the role we played.

I don't know bottom-line numbers for how much individual corporations have invested. I do know through informal discussions that product reformulation is not a cheap endeavour. It takes substantive dollars to do that. That point, too, was made in the IOM report that was released recently. It's a big investment, not just on the part of governments but also on the part of industry, to move forward with this initiative.

With respect to the labelling aspect, one of the things that Canada has in place is a very good, sound, nutrition facts panel. I think that from industry's perspective and from my personal perspective, building the communications messaging around what we already have in place as a tool to help Canadians make informed decisions makes the most sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Reaman.

[Ron Reaman]

I wonder if I might just follow up on your earlier question.

While I can't provide you with a specific statistic, I think it's important to recognize that the restaurant and food service industry sources its foodstuffs from the same food supply chain that we all use. Whether we are a grocery retailer or an individual Canadian who is going to that grocery store and purchasing foodstuffs, we purchase from the same supply chain.

What I would say to you is that it would be relative to the 20%. Within the food service industry we have two different essential types of operators, the chain restaurant operators and the independents. The chains are going to source as per spec for their products. Independents are going to source foodstuffs just like you and I do to cook at home. It's relative to that 20% is what I would say to you.

I hope that helps.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Reaman.

We'll now go to Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I have a general comment. We talk about the importance of education. Certainly I don't think anyone has had more education than we've had in our first couple of hearings, but what really stands out in my mind are the comments by Dr. Pipe, who said that healthy behaviours become easy decisions.

I'll make a confession. Right after our initial series of meetings, I started making sure I was checking every label I saw, but I recognize that I've drifted away from that behaviour over the months since we last chatted. In ways, the panel is good information, but it doesn't really stand out in terms of awareness.

More importantly, one thing I'd like to explore is understanding some of the research priorities we have around sodium consumption. As well, and related to my initial comment, there is the whole behavioural change piece and where we're going in terms of research with that also.

I'll open that up for general comment.

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

With the chair's permission, I'll leap in.

In my day job, I head the division of prevention and rehabilitation at the University of Ottawa Heart Institute. We are always talking about making the healthy choices the easy choices so that Canadians shouldn't have to think about the kinds of options afforded to them and should be able to have some assurance that the foods they purchase are healthy, safe, etc.

In the work we do clinically with our patient population, we spend an inordinate amount of time pointing out to our patient population the enormous amount of sodium found in a variety of food sources, a fact that is not appreciated by most Canadians.

A certain amount of sodium is absolutely necessary, and we understand that, but the degree to which we can begin to improve and enhance the quality of our food supply by minimizing or moderating sodium intake is going to make it a whole lot easier for Canadians to make healthier choices more easily.

[Stephen Samis]

One of the things the federal government can do in terms of facilitating research and facilitating our understanding of these issues is to dramatically improve both Canada's health surveillance system and the kinds of research platforms that we have available to us. I'll give you an example.

We have no idea how many heart attacks occur in Canada every year. We have no idea. We don't have a cardiac arrest registry. We have very poor cardiovascular-related health surveillance data in the country. Between 1970 and 2000, we went 30 years without a national nutrition survey.

We have encouraged the government to help us to bolster the health indicators and the measures that are going to be in the new Canadian cancer cohort, the Tomorrow Project, to ensure that we have really good, robust health measures in that cohort that will make it not just a cancer cohort, but a chronic disease cohort.

One of the ways in which we can do that is through a really thorough nutrition survey as people go through that cohort. That's not happening at the moment, and if doesn't happen, we're missing a golden opportunity to learn more about how diets and environments impact Canadians' health over time. The federal government has a tremendous role to play in ensuring that Canadian scientists have a really good research platform and data platform to work with, and we don't have that right now.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

We've heard a bit about Finland and the U.K. Do they or the other jurisdictions have mandatory limits on the sodium in those examples? Have other jurisdictions pursued mandatory limits on sodium?

[Phyllis Tanaka]

I don't actually remember if Finland's is mandatory. I know the U.K. is voluntary.

I think an important point to know also in looking at those two examples is that Finland took well over 20 years to shift their population average sodium intake. In the last record I remember looking at-- and Dr. L'Abbé might be able to confirm it--their average intakes are still higher than ours at our starting point here now.

In the U.K. I think it was in 2004 or 2006 when they started looking at shifting their sodium intake. They started at 3,800 and in 2008 they've just shifted it down to 3,400. They're not anywhere near 2,300 yet. So while yes, those are examples of countries that have taken leadership and action on reducing sodium, they've also through their experience demonstrated the significant challenges in doing it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Ms. Murray.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

I note that the Institute of Medicine report is recommending in the United States that the mandatory national standard of sodium be applied. Has there been any update to that? What's happening in the United States?

Dr. Pipe.

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

I would perhaps defer to Stephen, who may be more familiar with that.

To my knowledge, there has been no further evolution of the standard that you describe at this point.

[Stephen Samis]

I would say that's the case. Last week in Washington there was a national nutrition summit that involved the FDA and a variety of regulatory bodies in the United States. They were looking at issues related to sodium, transfats, fats, and obesity, etc.

I know there is a lot of work going on right now in a variety of federal agencies, but I still don't think there's any promulgation of regulations in the U.S.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

I'll make just a personal comment. I think if the recommendation was that every Canadian for a month not eat anything that has a label, nothing from a bottle, a can, a package, or a restaurant, we'd all change our taste for salt within a month. That may not be a practical recommendation.

I mean, it is frustratingly complex. I understand the absolute necessity of including the industry in the discussions. I want to acknowledge the good intentions and the hard work of the salt working group. But it does make me wonder, due to the terms of reference of the federal government to the salt working group, whether this hasn't been only almost like a delaying tactic, as opposed to an action approach. That's especially when it has precluded recommendations of mandatory regulation.

I guess I'm still wanting to get some clarity in terms of this committee's recommendations. I don't want to put you on the spot, Stephen or Dr. Pipe, but do you believe a committee that has a major component representing the 75% of consumption that is so laden with salt.... Would that working group actually be able to make recommendations to eat fresh food and eat foods without labels that have not been processed? Or is that kind of counter to the very make-up of the group?

I mean, are we going to get recommendations that are going to really take action, fast and effectively? Or by the nature of the group are we going to have it predisposed to the waiting and the careful, slow “we can't change peoples' taste because it takes years” kind of report?

[Stephen Samis]

I would have to say, on behalf of the foundation, that as a member of the working group it's difficult for me to answer that question without undermining perhaps the representative of the Heart and Stroke Foundation who's on the group. So I'm actually going to defer the question, because we--

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay, who's not on the salt working group who can give a frank comment to that question?

[Stephen Samis]

Yes, and that's why I defer to Andrew. Thank you.

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

Well, I think it is unfortunate that the repertoire of opportunity, if I can use that rather convoluted phrase, that the committee seems to be taking seems very specifically to preclude any form of regulation. I say so because frankly some forms of regulation would be very helpful to industry. It would create a level playing field. It would allow those responsible members of our food industry who are demonstrating very distinct leadership in a number of areas to do so with even more vigour, knowing that they're not going to be blind-sided by individuals who will just take advantage of the fact that there is no regulation.

I'm a very strong believer in comprehensive approaches to public health that involve voluntary approaches but also some degree of regulation. We have in Canada some sparkling examples from the food industry of leadership on the sodium issue, and I think you're all familiar with those. But it just seems to me so sadly ironic that we are spending some of our programming resources, such as on some of the things we're doing in the Champlain area of eastern Ontario, to run television commercials telling Canadians how to take processed foods and to make the canned foods they buy safer. Something's not right with that picture.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

So what recommendations should the committee make to really encourage people to open their eyes to the value of cooking and eating fresh foods, or eating closer to the natural product, so the processed food industry can catch up to what we need—which is less salt in our food?

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

Well, I would put it the other way around. Frankly, the realities of 21st century life, as we've all heard, are that many of us eat food in a variety of settings and for a variety of reasons. So I think there's a fundamental public health responsibility to optimize the safety—and I use that term quite deliberately—of the food that is available to us in all of those kinds of settings. I say this because I realize that harried families, two-parent families, and working parents are obviously going to take advantage of the food opportunities that are afforded to them by the hospitality and the food industry. I think we have to help the food and hospitality industries make the healthy choices in the constitution of their products.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'm not suggesting that it's either/or. I'm wondering if a recommendation around both is something you would endorse?

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

Absolutely.