Health Committee on May 6th, 2010

[Paul Hetherington]

In the baking industry, our breads and rolls segment has essentially been trans fat free since the late 1990s, when we switched over to using a liquid oil. The challenge has been with the need for a hard fat for lamination purposes, in puff pastries, etc. The choice fat that the industry has been utilitizing has been a palm oil-based fat, which is a high-saturate fat. That's not the alternative we want, but it's what is available in the marketplace currently.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Is there someone else who would like to comment?

Go ahead, Ms. Tanaka.

[Phyllis Tanaka]

I'd just like to reiterate the key components. There is work being done at all levels within the agrifood system to find ways to mitigate trans fat in the food supply, from the seed developers right through to the baking industry looking for alternative thin products. These have been deemed, right from the very beginning, to be very challenging. The work is ongoing. It is challenging, and industry as a whole is meeting the challenge.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Go ahead, Mr. Sparks.

[Doug Sparks]

I'd like to comment just generally on the baking trade. We are involved with many parts of it, so I see many parts of it. I was also involved with our U.S. business for many years.

Actually, the Canadian bakery group should take special credit. In many cases, transition to a high-saturate palm formulation was readily available, and that formulation, while it did not have trans fats, of course had high saturates. Many of the bakery people have taken the next step and are using a much higher percentage of liquid oils and rather sophisticated fractions to provide functionality and lower saturation, so there has been an additional step taken in some cases.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Sparks.

We're now going to go into our second round. We will have five minutes for questions and answers.

We're going to begin with Ms. Murray.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

I'm trying to understand. I'm going back to a question that Mr. Malo had.

He asked about the 1% level, or the two grams of fat per day that has been accepted by WHO. Your answer was that it is a scientific level. Why would New York City and California--that's more than the population of Canada--bring this down to zero, if an amount between zero and two grams is completely harmless from a health perspective? Does the scientific decision to do 1% or two grams have to do with analysis of the difficulty, or the cost to the industry? Is there really a health benchmark, or is it more a convenience or cost benchmark?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

The level of 1% comes from a World Health Organization recommendation that--

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Well, I got that, but I asked what the science is. Is it about health, or is it--

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

It is a health-based science, but it is also an estimate that was made based on food intakes. Essentially, it accounts for the diet, and as was mentioned--

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay, so it's really about practicality and convenience, not about health.

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

No, it's about the diet. The diet contains natural sources of trans fats. Even with the natural sources of trans fat, our advice is to reduce those natural sources of trans fat in terms of dietary choices--not in products, but in terms of dietary sources.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

Maybe I've misunderstood what New York City and California are doing with their ban on trans fats. Are they allowing natural sources, but not added sources?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

It's the processed trans fats that are actually subject to a ban.

I would go back to the effectiveness of some of these measures for banning trans fat at the retail level, specifically in the food service sector. You need to have measures taken upstream around the availability of the sources--

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Then it's the practicality. It's not about health, but about practicality. Okay.

What is the date by which Health Canada wants to see the two-grams-a-day target met? At last report, we were 170% higher than that. By what date do you require the industry to get down to two grams?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

As was mentioned, in his announcement in 2007 the Minister of Health gave the industry two years to meet the recommendations of the trans fat task force. At the end of the two years and after the implementation of the trans fat monitoring program, there is an assessment period that would allow us to see what progress--

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

There was a goal to get down to that point in that time, but you're giving them an extension. Okay.

Here is where I'm going with this. We know that this is a poison that has absolutely nothing good to do with our health. We know we weren't using it before the 1970s. We have spent from the mid-1990s to today on it, and we are still 70% over a guideline that is higher than the health benefit.

Do you think there is a possibility that Health Canada could be sued by families of victims, who might claim that Health Canada has been negligent in the role of overseeing the food supply and using all levers, regulatory or non-regulatory, to achieve the targeted health outcomes as you have stated them? Are Health Canada and the people of Canada vulnerable to being sued, as happened around tobacco, for knowingly allowing a poison, knowingly extending deadlines, and not using the levers and taking the actions available to them?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

The responsibility for making safe foods available is actually industry's responsibility. What Health Canada does is develop the requirements that will ensure we have a safe food supply. That's essentially what I indicated in my introductory notes. We're looking at the feasibility of all the options and analyzing these options—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I've heard that already.

You're saying you don't believe Health Canada has any vulnerability for being negligent in doing its due diligence in regulating the product. We know how to do it, we know it needs to be done, and the regulation is not in place.

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

We're using the best available science we have, and also all the levers that are under the oversight of the Department of Health in order to mitigate the health effects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Godefroy.

Go ahead, Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll follow up on some of the comments we've heard about the examples of California and New York City. Are there any other successful examples from other regimes abroad that you think Canada should look?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

The situation of Canada and of North America is somewhat different from other jurisdictions because we already have a supply that has traditionally been higher in trans fat levels, so while what is happening in other jurisdictions is useful and informative, we have to adapt the solutions to the Canadian context, and specifically around the availability of those oils and those replacement options that would allow food processing with the lowest level of trans fat. That's essentially what the assessment of the department is concentrating on right now. We're focusing on the outcomes of the monitoring program as it is.

We're looking specifically at the areas where progress has not been achieved to the level that was recommended by the trans fat task force. We're looking at the reasons and at the challenges being faced by those sectors, whether it's the food service sector or the baking sector, whether they are technical levers or economic levers. We're also looking at all the replacement options that are available; we are exerting our regulatory oversight on these options and facilitating their availability.

All the options are out there, and they are being assessed in order to come up with the best and most effective tool for the reduction of trans fats.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I realize we've had success, but hypothetically, if we are not able to meet the WHO recommendation, what are the options that you're looking at, for example, in the hospitality industry? I realize you've had a lot of success with the nutrition labelling regulations, but in terms of the hospitality sector, what options are available?

[Dr. Samuel Godefroy]

Maybe I'll let Ron speak to that more specifically. Would you like to comment?