Health Committee on Dec. 9th, 2010

[Paul Glover]

The short answer is absolutely. That's part of why the minister, in her remarks at this committee, said it was appropriate to step back at this time and learn from other large public health initiatives with respect to their success, the level of interjurisdictional cooperation, and the explosive use of new media and new technologies.

If you look at the date of the public opinion research on what we did, it quite frankly predated some of the explosions with respect to public opinion research.

I'll turn to Jane Hazel, the director general in this area, to further elaborate.

[Jane Hazel]

At Health Canada we've traditionally used mass media--TV, radio, and print--to reach our target audiences, and those campaigns have been very effective.

Now we're looking at a whole new world with Web 2.0, where we see that 17.5 million Canadians are current users of Facebook and 21 million Canadians a month are going on YouTube to see online videos. That kind of reach in engagement is phenomenal, and I think it has really expanded the tools we have available to reach Canadians.

As Paul mentioned, at Health Canada we're already using some of those tools in our anti-drug campaign, for example, aimed at youth 13 to 15. We have a Facebook page that has over 22,000 fans. There are ways that youth can give us their own testimonials and other youth can watch them. Those are exciting new things we've been doing that have been showing success.

Last week the minister launched our children's health and safety campaign aimed at giving parents health and safety information. We're really excited by some of the new technology we've been using there. For the first time ever we have QR codes in our print and brochure material. In addition to Facebook, we've launched our first widget and our first mobile application, so now people can have all of our recalls and advisories at hand. So that's quite exciting.

We've developed an electronic handbook that parents can tailor to the needs of their own families and children. So if a parent is worried about bullying, nutrition, obesity, or food allergies, they can tailor this handbook to their own needs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie, half the time is there. Do you have another question?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

If you don't mind, I would like something clarified.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Is that okay, Mr. Uppal?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Several news outlets have alleged that the tobacco industry somehow caused the government to shelve the project. As you are aware, the minister was in front of the committee and said that warning labels have not been shelved and a decision has not been made.

Would you confirm that, so it's clear for our members and the Canadian public who may be watching this?

[Paul Glover]

Absolutely. While it is acknowledged and has been pointed out through public disclosure that the department and my officials take meetings with health NGOs and industry, those meetings were always with respect to the project, the pace of the project, an attempt to further improve the project. We were working with the minister on a range of options, and it was the minister, on seeing the package and looking at it, who felt that further room for improvement was possible. It was her instructions to us to go back and look at further, more comprehensive activities to better address the needs of youth—Web 2.0, as my colleague has said—that led to us putting a pause on this to do further research and analysis to further improve the project.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much. I'm sure you're aware too that a motion was passed at this committee by opposition members calling for an enormous amount of information going back six years, and I know some of this has been provided. A letter was sent to the committee indicating that it would take a couple of months to finish compiling the rest of the information that the opposition requested.

I was wondering, while we know the timeline, we don't know the cost. Could you provide us with an estimate as to what it would cost to fulfill this opposition request? I'm curious.

[An hon. member]

It's a good question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Order, please.

Mr. Glover.

[Paul Glover]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We have two estimates, a high and a low, given that we had provided what information we could given the seven-day response to the request from the committee. To fully satisfy the committee, the timelines have been furnished. We believe the low estimate is around $312,000 and the upper end would be around $475,000 to gather all of that information, have it vetted, reviewed, translated, and have copies made available to the committee.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Uppal, would you like to speak?

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Yes. I think we have just a little bit of time left.

I was actually interested because you got cut off on the multimedia side. Was there anything else you would like to expand on?

[Jane Hazel]

Sure. I think this responds a little bit to Ms. Leslie's question. I think these new social media tools are especially useful in the area of tobacco, because what the research shows us in tobacco is that quitting is very contagious. If someone in your social network quits, you're much more likely to quit. In the past, maybe 10 years ago, you'd have to go to a support group in your community; you'd have to find some sort of clinic. Now these social networks are available to us at the touch of a button.

We've been looking at what other jurisdictions have already been doing. In Florida, for example, they've developed a Twitter-based cessation aid called Qwitter, which has been quite successful and they have had good results with that. New York City has a Facebook community, I Quit Because, where people go on and give their reasons and share their support. Here in Canada, even, the Canadian Lung Association has used social media and e-cards that you can send to your friends to ask them to quit with you, and they've had quite a lot of success with that. We've also looked at other jurisdictions, such as Australia. When they've launched their health warning messages, they've found that using a multimedia approach to support that has increased the calls to their quit line.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. Hazel.

I'm sorry, your time is up now. We want to get in as many questions as possible.

Ms. Duncan.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

And thank you to the witnesses.

I think the point is that we have evidence that warnings work. We know they reduce tobacco use. We know they communicate the health effects of smoking. They increase the number of people who disapprove of smoking. They discourage people from starting to smoke, and they increase the number of people who quit smoking. And with labels, those package warnings reach smokers every day. That evidence does not exist for social media at this point. We're hearing anecdotal evidence of it, but we need evidence-based medicine in Canada.

I would ask if you could please table all of the health warnings prepared by the department. How many warnings were there? We want to see the content. I don't want to be sent to a website; I'd like them tabled, please, with the committee.

I would also ask if you could table with the committee a comprehensive timeline of the discussions with the provinces and territories regarding the quit line and the recommendations concerning the quit line number, including when the provinces were to be ready for an increase in calls and whether the provinces were told to be ready for the quit line number to appear on packs by now, that is, by December 2010.

I would ask if you could table with the committee how and when the decision not to proceed with the new warnings was communicated to departmental staff and to provincial and territorial health ministers, and what reasons were given.

Now, if I may, I would like to ask the officials from Nova Scotia the following. Based on your discussions with Health Canada and prior to the warnings being delayed, when were you told to expect the quit line number to appear on packages and thus of the need to prepare for an increase in calls?

[Dr. Robert Strang]

I'm going to defer that question to Mr. Machat, who was directly involved in those discussions.

[Steve Machat, Manager, Tobacco Control, Chronic Disease and Injury Prevention, Department of Health Promotion and Protection, Government of Nova Scotia]

A definite go-date would be right about now.

I'd have to look at the records of the decisions and conversations we've had in the past at FPT committee meetings, but I can say with much certainty that we should actually be seeing, by this time, our efforts being ramped up and our being ready to go with our quit line operations.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

Could you table that information, please, with the committee? Thank you.

And from your perspective, Dr. Strang, what would be the benefits of having that new set of picture warnings covering 75% of the package, the front and back?

[Dr. Robert Strang]

I think it's twofold.

We know from a lot of focus group testing over the years that the impact of the current health warnings has greatly faded. As it is with any product, Nike doesn't sit and use the same advertising for 10 years. If this is going to be effective, we need to continue to develop new images. That's one piece of it.

The other piece is that the more space there is on a tobacco package for health warnings, the less space there is for product labelling and imagery, etc. We know that tobacco packaging is the last and main way remaining for the tobacco industry to advertise to and attract new customers. So the less space they have, the less ability they have to advertise.

So in both ways, that will actually prevent people from smoking and help current smokers to quit.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Strang.

Dr. Dhalla, I know, has a question.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have a chance to go out to schools in my riding on an almost weekly basis, and I can tell you, just building upon what my colleague, Mr. Dosanjh, said, the only thing deterring young people from purchasing these cigarettes is actually going to be the warning labels. Evidence produces that. We've seen that, and we've also learned, from talking to young people themselves, that that is what the reality is.

We have Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada stating that they feel the industry threatens, that it bullies, that it cajoles, that it seduces—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Dhalla, your time is up, so please ask him the question quickly.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

You had mentioned, Mr. Glover, that you had face-to-face meetings with the NGOs 15 times, I believe. We have records that show the lobbying groups from the three big companies met 53 times over a two-year period. Why is there such a discrepancy in the number of times Health Canada met with health NGOs versus the number of times they met with these three big companies?

[Paul Glover]

Thank you.

Very briefly, in response to the member's question, we've tabled...and I will reiterate that we had 15 meetings with health NGOs and 16 with industry. We take all meetings.

With respect to lobbying, I'm not able to speak to the number of times various people were lobbied. I can report the number of times my staff and I took meetings with health and industry NGOs.