Health Committee on March 8th, 2012

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here with us today and for the wonderful presentation, especially Denise.

Denise, I want to applaud your courage for being open about this and trying to help other Canadians with this problem.

I'm wondering if you can share with us—Dave may have shared—whether any of this had anything to do with his high-profile job or the position he was in. Obviously, at times it can be difficult for members to juggle family life and their job. I'm curious to know whether Dave may have discussed this with you or whether you had any conversation with Dave with regard to this.

He decided not to run before the 2008 election, and he was a member for about four years. I'm wondering whether you feel this problem was there before he was elected, or did his job have anything to do with it?

[Denise Batters]

Dave was, if anyone knew him, a perfectionist. He was a perfectionist from the time he was a kid.

With that type-A personality he probably always had a certain level of anxiety in his life. Typically he was a high achiever, so he wasn't satisfied with anything other than being stellar at everything he did. He probably had a low level of anxiety throughout his life.

At the same time, he never knew how to leave a job or to have anything other than an absolute 24/7 work ethic. When you're an MP from Saskatchewan, as Mrs. Block can attest to, you don't have direct flights to Ottawa. So you get up at four in the morning on Monday, take that 6 a.m. flight, and when you get to Ottawa you can't just go and have a nap at the hotel; you have to go to question period right from the airport. You have a long day. It's that sort of thing. So there's the constant travel.

He was in a minority government for the entire time he served, and that was a huge difference. I'm happy to see now there's a majority and you have much more stability in your lives, hopefully, with the result of a majority. That was difficult, certainly. But there was the travel schedule, the constant changing of time zones.

Also, the first time Dave won, he won by 124 votes, and that never left his mind. Whereas sometimes people might want to go home on the weekend and not do any events and have a relaxing weekend, we were always going to events. We lost some balance in our life, definitely. Before he was an MP, we'd have date nights and that sort of thing. Date nights went a little bit the way of the dodo bird. Our date nights were now at banquets in Regina and Moose Jaw.

It's always important to keep balance in your life, no matter what your job is. That certainly was a contributing factor.

I mentioned that he had become dependent on prescription pills to help him sleep and to reduce the anxiety, and there's no doubt that was exacerbated during the time he was an MP.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you.

What would you say is the most important thing family members can do for their loved ones who are suffering from depression and potentially having suicidal thoughts?

[Denise Batters]

As I stated earlier, have open communication with them. Do not give them the “snap out of it” speech. They would snap out of it if they could. They want to snap out of it. They're not able to. It's a health issue. It's brain chemistry. They need medical attention. They need other types of things to help them out. It's not a matter of just being wimpy or weak.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

What would you say are some of the obstacles families face when trying to communicate about mental health?

[Denise Batters]

There's just a lack of knowledge, I think. Maybe some of the stigma that's been around for decades has stuck with them too, so maybe they think, well, I don't know, is the person just kind of weak and can they snap out of it? So again, lack of knowledge and that stigma thing are the major obstacles. Plus, they're trying to do everything they can for that person, and they may not know what to do. You just come to a point where you run out of options.

At the same time, you can only push this person so far. They have to want the help themselves or they're not going to stick with it.

[Dammy Damstrom-Albach]

I would just add quickly that in Vancouver we run a program out of where I work called Concerned Others. That program is to support the friends and family members of people who may be suicidal or expressing suicidal ideation or have made an attempt.

Again, if you have a national strategy and support for that, ideas like that, which are so effective, could be spread across the country—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Excuse me, you didn't check with me. We were out of time when you started.

[Dammy Damstrom-Albach]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Quach really wants to have a question, so I need to go over to her.

Maybe you can continue with this. I don't know. It's your turn.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses for giving us more information on the strategies that exist elsewhere in the world and what Canada has done over the years.

Professor Mishara, I found it very interesting that you spoke about the 40 recommendations in the previous reports. So far, little concrete action has been taken. The WHO recommends that each country develop a national strategy.This is what is being proposed here, although it is still just a proposal.

Which targets do you think should be given priority? In Quebec, our prevention has been very effective and has decreased the suicide rate in young people by half. I don't know if you have heard about the awareness campaign by Jasmin Roy, a very well known actor and host in Quebec. He is homosexual and was the victim of a lot of homophobia in his youth, adolescence and as he was entering adulthood. He wrote a very provocative book called Osti de fif!, which is a trendy and very common expression young people use, even though it is very destructive.

Could you please tell me about the targets that should be given priority?

[Prof. Brian Mishara]

The challenge comes from the fact that there isn't just one target. Everyone is interested in young people, but they aren't the ones who are most at risk; it's adult men. There are sub-groups as well, such as gay and lesbian individuals. Since there isn't a single target, we need coordination, an authority capable of determining the multiple targets and of ensuring that the information is spread everywhere.

Suicide is multi-determined. There are all kinds of risk factors, such as the lack of protection factors. There are various ways of lowering the suicide rate: we can control access to methods, we can provide help in crisis situations, telephone assistance, for example. The Internet is a new frontier for providing assistance. We can also apply the current legislation, such as Bill 141, which prohibits anyone from inciting or encouraging a person to commit suicide. This has never been applied when a person pushes another over the Internet to commit suicide.

There isn't just one target. I wouldn't dare say that one thing should be done instead of another. Suicide can affect everyone, and we need to act at multiple levels, simultaneously.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Batters, as others before me have done, I salute your great courage in coming here today after the very painful experience you have gone through.

You also mentioned fighting cultural prejudices. It is difficult to realize that you need help, to ask for it and to tell everyone that you have reached your limit. But, in order to regain a balance, it is healthy to recognize that you need help.

Do you think that we could make use of role models of different types, different cultures, different genders, and different ages as well, given that older people are said to be equally as affected? Have you thought of that for the awareness campaigns? You mentioned role models from sport, like Stéphane Richer.

[Denise Batters]

Actually, I have thought about that, and that was specifically why I decided to target men between 30 and 50 in the commercial we did, and to have a guy who looked like a normal guy who would be playing hockey with his friends on the weekends and going out for coffee with a little group of friends. That's the target group I chose because of Dave, and because it seems to be borne out by the statistics that its the highest-risk group for completed suicides. Women, I think, attempt ten times more than men, but men are successful three times more than women, so that's the group I chose.

Certainly, having a diversity of different groups shown to have these role models who step forward, and that sort of thing, would definitely be very helpful. I think it's important, though, that when you're developing all these different groups, you remember the fact that middle-aged men are the highest-risk group, so they can't be forgotten. I think if they see all these different groups but none of them are like them at all, they will be less likely to seek help.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much to all the witnesses. Every witness contributed to this conversation in a very meaningful way, and I thank you for that.

I guess because we're emotionally connected to you, Denise, I especially thank you for your courage for coming here. We do miss Dave, but I think there are a lot of people who will have lives through his death, and through his courage in it. So there is some silver lining to this very sad occasion. Thank you very much for continuing on.

I'm going to suspend the committee now for one minute, and then we're going to go into our business. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Could I ask you to please take your seats again?

We have a very timely and important motion before us by Ms. Quach.

Ms. Quach, would you please read it into the record?

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

I move:That the committee undertake a study on improved drug safety measures; that it hold at least five (5) meetings on this study to hear witnesses, including the Minister of Health; and that it report its findings to the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much.

We're open for discussion.

Dr. Morin is first.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to move a friendly amendment. After the words “drug safety measures”, I would like to add “and develop a federal plan to address the current drug shortage”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I think there has been some discussion between Madame Quach and my assistant and we would like to change it to state something a little bit more specific:

That the committee set three meetings aside after the Bill C-300 study to explain the role of government and industry in determining drug supply in this country, how the provinces and territories determine what drugs are required in their jurisdictions, and how industry responds to them, and the impact this has on stakeholders.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

A point of order.

Given that I have moved an amendment—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Morin, just one moment, please.

Dr. Morin, go ahead.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Given that I already have an amendment on the table, shouldn't we discuss my amendment before we move to Dr. Carrie's?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

The procedure is that we get everything on the table, and yours will be dealt with first, of course. You should know by now that that is the procedure. I know you're new, but not that new.

Okay, let's deal with yours first.

The clerk would like it in writing. Do you have it in writing, Dr. Morin?

Can we read Dr. Morin's out first, just so everyone is aware? Thank you. And you have Dr. Carrie's.

So we'll deal with Dr. Morin's first. Can you read it out, Dr. Morin? Is this your only copy?

Okay. The clerk will try then.