Health Committee on Nov. 6th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Good morning, committee.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

A point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Yes, Ms. Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Chair, given that we're starting about 45 minutes late because of the vote, and I know that we have witnesses here that we're eager to hear, at the last meeting we had some discussion that we might continue with further consideration of Bill C-45. We had put forward the names of four witnesses. I don't know whether they were contacted, but we would like to see witnesses other than government officials and from the industry. I think it's important we hear other perspectives as well.

I just want to make it clear that if we try to shorten the witnesses' appearance today, I don't think that's a good idea, because we have a number of questions we want to ask. Therefore, I would like to move, based on the fact that we are late starting, and that we're not going to get through this in an hour and 10 minutes, that we go to November 20—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Davies, this is not a point of order.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Well, I would like to move a motion that we go to November 20, so that we can continue to hear witnesses in consideration of the bill. I make that as a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I certainly would be in favour of having the witnesses stay here a little bit longer than we originally had planned, at the top of the hour or something like that.

But, Madam Chair, before we did say that maybe we would continue or not, I believe the clerk sent out a request for different amendments. I know I haven't seen any that the opposition put forward, so I'm assuming that everybody is okay with the changes. Obviously, if the opposition had some amendments to put forward, they would have done that. They probably had a chance to read the changes and see that it's a very cost-effective thing we're doing to decrease duplication. Basically, nothing is really going to be changing with this transition, other than making it more efficient.

I think we should just move forward and allow the officials and the witnesses we have here today to get started. Anything that occurs after that, if we think we need to hear some more, certainly we can talk about that in our session afterwards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay.

I have to deal with the motion.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Madam Chair, I had my hand up to respond.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I think it's kind of premature to bring forward amendments until we've heard from the witnesses as to what their issues and concerns are and what doesn't concern them, if any concerns arise. I would suggest that not having had any amendments put forward is not an indication that there are not going to be any amendments. I support Ms. Davies' motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay.

Ms. Davies, you're on again.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Very briefly, that was exactly the point I was going to make as well. The fact that there are no amendments now doesn't preclude what might happen. We're also concerned that we do hear from a number of witnesses and then, I would imagine, there will be some lengthy consideration of the bill. That's why I've put forward the motion that we at least have one other day on November 20.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I can just say, if you'll think back, there was a request from all sides of the House to have a day to discuss. We have only clauses 269 to 298 to consider. We don't have the whole bill. We have just that compacted part. There is a deadline. It has to be in by November 20. Everything has to be in to the finance committee by then. There is a break week coming up. We don't have time. The input is here today. We are all very knowledgeable about this bill. It is not a surprise bill. We have consulted widely about it. We should take that into consideration as well.

I'm going to call for the vote now.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Can I have a recorded vote, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

A recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Welcome to our committee, witnesses. We're glad that you're here.

We're going to try to give you your full time so we can hear what you have to say. There will be seven minutes for each organization.

Following that, we will go in camera at 12:30 until 1:00 for any discussion during the business meeting on this.

We will begin with Health Canada. We have Suzy McDonald. Is it Dr. Suzy McDonald?

[Suzy McDonald, Special Advisor to the Assistant Deputy Minister, Assistant Deputy Minister's Office, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Health Canada]

Suzy McDonald.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We Suzy McDonald, special adviser to the assistant deputy minister. You have seven minutes.

[Suzy McDonald]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

My name is Suzy McDonald. I'm with Health Canada. I thought I'd begin today by providing a brief explanation of the roles of both Health Canada and the Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission, which I'll refer to as the commission, in protecting worker health and safety as it relates to hazardous materials in the workplace.

The workplace hazardous materials information system, also known as WHMIS, is designed to protect worker health and safety while allowing industry to protect confidential business information. This program was established in Canada in 1988 through interlocking federal, provincial, and territorial legislation.

At the federal level the Hazardous Products Act and its associated regulations require suppliers, such as chemical, mining, and petroleum sectors, to classify workplace hazardous materials and provide information on these hazardous materials. Just so we're clear, the vast majority of these materials are workplace chemicals.

Essentially, if you produce a hazardous material for work in the workplace, that hazardous material needs to have a label that identifies the hazards, and it must be accompanied by a material safety data sheet, an MSDS, that provides information to workers on how to handle the product, what personal protective equipment to wear, which first aid measures should be taken if you come into direct contact with the product, and how the product should be disposed of or what you should do in the case of an accidental spill.

When selling or importing hazardous materials for workplace use, the Hazardous Materials Information Review Act, the portion of the bill before you today, enables suppliers and employers to protect confidential business information. Essentially, companies can submit a claim to the commission which reviews the information and ensures that the label and the MSDS contain the correct information even when companies are not going to disclose the actual ingredients.

The commission reviews between 350 and 400 such claims a year. In addition to this, federal, provincial, and territorial occupational health and safety legislation and regulations place requirements on employers to inform and train their workers on the safe use of hazardous products using the labels and the material safety data sheets as provided by suppliers. At the federal level, the Canada Labour Code prescribes these requirements for federally regulated industries.

As set out in the bill before you today, the Hazardous Materials Information Review Act would be amended to transfer the responsibilities and the functions of the commission to Health Canada and as a result, the commission would cease to stand as a stand-alone agency.

The changes presented in the bill before you are administrative in nature, which means that they make the changes needed so that the commission will no longer be a stand-alone agency. The responsibilities and functions of the commission will not change as they transfer to Health Canada. The changes will not alter the operation of the exemptions permitted for confidential business information.

I would say that the changes to the act fall into a few broad categories. One, it repeals mention of the president and the council of governors as they will no longer exist. Two, it replaces the council of governors, which is established through a governor in council appointment, with a new ministerial advisory council enacted through this legislation. The composition of the new council would mirror that of the existing council. Three, it ensures that the employees and their positions from within the commission are transferred to Health Canada, including any employees who may be impacted by workforce adjustment. Four, it repeals sections of the act that through legislation set out requirements that would no longer be required for a stand-alone agency, an annual report for example.

The amendments to the act will not affect its primary purpose, which is to provide for the granting of exemptions under WHMIS so as to protect confidential business information. All key aspects of the act related to the claim for exemptions remain the same, including registration of claims, issuance of registry numbers, determination of claim validity, determination of compliance of the material safety data sheets and labels, and convening of independent tripartite boards to hear appeals from claimants or affected parties on decisions and orders under the act.

Health Canada already serves as a national coordinator for WHMIS. If the budget bill passes, staff and the commission will be merged with existing WHMIS staff. Moving the confidential business information review role of the commission to Health Canada achieves two objectives: efficiencies and ensuring that the responsibilities for protecting workers can be managed in a balanced, effective and efficient way.

Again, the roles and responsibilities of the commission are not changing as they transfer to Health Canada. The technical experts who work at the commission will continue their work once they transfer to Health Canada, only now they'll work more closely with experts from the WHMIS program across the department.

Both stakeholders and provincial and territorial partners, some of whom are here today, have been notified of the proposed changes and they will continue to be engaged throughout this process.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much for your presentation. It's very much appreciated.

We will go to Ms. Coombs, the president of the Canadian Consumer Specialty Products Association.

[Shannon Coombs, President, Canadian Consumer Specialty Products Association]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Shannon Coombs, and I am the president of the Canadian Consumer Specialty Products Association, CCSPA. I'm also a member of the council of governors for the Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission.

It's a pleasure to be here today to meet with you and provide a short presentation on our support for the administrative changes included in Bill C-45 for the Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission, HMIRC.

CCSPA is a national trade association that represents 42 member companies across Canada, collectively a $20-billion industry directly employing 12,000 people. Our companies manufacture, process, package, and distribute consumer, industrial, and institutional specialty products such as soaps and detergents, pest control products, aerosols, hard surface cleaners and disinfectants, deodorizers, and automotive chemicals.

CCSPA members use the services provided by the government under the Hazardous Materials Information Review Act to formally register confidential business information on workplace safety data sheets, a service that the government has provided since 1985. The work of the HMIRC is about ensuring that confidential business information on the data sheets and health and safety information is not compromised. Both are provided effectively to the workers and to industry.

It's unfortunate that there has been some misinformation in the media about the HMIRC role. In no way is the review of chemicals being eliminated from these amendments. Canada is a world leader with a comprehensive approach to chemical management and assessment of both new and existing substances under the chemicals management plan that was announced by the Prime Minister in 2006 and renewed in 2011.

The administrative changes proposed in Bill C-45 are to house the commission within the healthy environments and consumer safety branch, HECSB, of Health Canada. It's our understanding that these changes will save valuable resources. Currently the commission has its own financial full-time equivalent as well as human resources full-time equivalents. Now they will be shared with Health Canada. Including these services within the Department of Health will result in more integrated coordination with the workplace hazardous materials information system, currently housed at HECSB.

We are also supportive of the continued legislative consultation mechanism, which is appointed by the minister and is comprised of the various stakeholders—industry, labour, employers, and the FPT component. This makes for a very robust consultation mechanism for the HMIRA.

In our opinion, the administrative changes will reduce costs and allow Health Canada to assist in responsible expenditure management in budget 2012. The changes will ensure the health and safety of workers while protecting confidential business information and allowing business to be competitive.

Thank you for your time today. I'd be happy to answer any questions the committee members may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much for your presentation, which was very helpful, and for your brief. We read it beforehand.

We'll now go to Ms. Coshan.

[Rita Coshan, Chair, Council of Governors, Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the invitation to participate in this important discussion.

My name is Rita Coshan, and I am providing remarks on behalf of the council of governors of the Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission. I currently chair this council, which has representation from supplier, employer, and worker organizations, as well as from the different occupational health and safety jurisdictions across Canada, which largely fall under provincial and territorial mandates. In addition to that role, I also have been working in the field of occupational health and safety for over 23 years as a provincial WHMIS coordinator, as a toxicologist, and currently as the director of health services for the Ministry of Labour Relations and Workplace Safety for the Government of Saskatchewan.

In my role at the council of governors, I would like to make a few remarks with respect to the group of amendments in this bill, but I would primarily like to focus my comments on clause 274, which establishes a legislated external advisory committee to advise the Minister of Health on matters related to the act to replace the current council of governors.

The council of governors recognizes this bill will amalgamate the commission and the national office of WHMIS within a directorate of Health Canada. This has the potential to enhance hazard communication in the workplace and result in more informed and protected workers. The amalgamation of these functions presents many opportunities to share complementary technical, policy, and enforcement expertise and resources for synergistic improvements in service delivery. This is particularly important as we move forward to adopt the global harmonization system into WHMIS in a very timely and time-compressed manner.

The amendment contained in clause 274 replaces the current council of governors with a ministerial advisory council that has the same stakeholder representation as the current council specified in the legislation. It has a broader role than that of the current council in that it is granted legislative authority to advise the minister on all aspects of the act. The effectiveness of the current council of governors' advisory capacity has been exercised in recent times. The amendment to create the legislated advisory council was a recommendation of the council of governors. The council of governors has also recently provided advice to the Minister of Health with respect to products that are excluded from the Hazardous Products Act and thus not subject to HMIRA provisions. We anticipate these recommendations will be addressed in the upcoming amendments to the Hazardous Products Act.

The need for an effective ministerial advisory committee is related to the fact that chemical hazard communication in the workplace falls within the mandates of both labour and health in provincial, territorial and federal legislation. Many of the outcomes of effective WHMIS and confidential business information protection are seen in the workplace. The workers, employers, and the workplace occupational health inspectorate have a very front line view of how well this communication is occurring, and how well the confidential business information is being protected. They have a front line view of whether or not the intended outcomes of informed and protected workers are occurring. It has been my experience that workplace stakeholders primarily raise their concerns and most directly communicate within the occupational safety and health, OSH, framework of labour ministries.

At the same time, the commission and the national office of WHMIS have very much benefited from their association with Health Canada and their access to its expertise and experience with a broad spectrum of hazardous materials and enforcement programs. This overlap into the mandates of two types of ministries and several levels of government means that continuing communication and partnerships are keys to its ongoing success. Key too is the profile of this workplace-based program as a directorate within Health Canada.

Health Canada is a very large and complex ministry with abundant and competing pressures.

I would like to end by saying that all stakeholders will have to continue to work very diligently and cooperatively with Health Canada to ensure that the profile and success of this important program is maintained.

Thank you again, Madam Chair. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I want to thank the witnesses for their insightful comments.

We're now going into our Qs and As. We will have seven minutes for Qs and As, beginning with Ms. Davies.