Evidence of meeting #2 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was china.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul MacKinnon  Executive Vice-President, Canada Border Services Agency
Heather Jeffrey  Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Patrick Tanguy  Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Aaron McCrorie  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Denis Vinette  Vice-President, Travellers Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Patrick Tanguy

It's Minister Blair. There are a few things that are important to understand, and that's why I was explaining how the federal emergency management system works. Each department and agency must have a plan, a system in place and levels of response. When a major event or one of national interest occurs, the Government Operations Centre can respond at different levels, as explained earlier.

February 3rd, 2020 / 5 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

In my notes, I wrote the word “doubt” in big letters. For Canadians, that's the word that comes to mind when we talk about the centre's effectiveness. From what you've told us thus far, I understand that your organization has been brought into service.

Are there any problems within the Government of Canada related to the centre's launch? My sense is that other countries have quicker response protocols and that, in Canada, we tend to work in silos. Are there things that need changing before the next event occurs?

Like Canadians, we felt the response was slow in coming. Is it the way you operate that makes it seem so?

5:05 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Patrick Tanguy

I'm not the best person to answer that, but I can tell you that the public won't necessarily know what the response level is. For instance, if the Government Operations Centre response is at a level 1—enhanced monitoring—the public won't necessarily be informed. The Government Operations Centre was brought into service on January 23. However, I don't think I can give you a satisfactory answer to your question.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

When it comes to emergency preparedness, these are questions that will need to be revisited to figure out how best to proceed in situations like these.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you.

We'll go now to Dr. Powlowski for five minutes.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Thank you, Chair. I think I'm going to share the questioning with Darren.

I have one big question. You seem to be gaining all of your identifying of passengers—asking questions, following them up—specifically with people from Wuhan or Hubei province. I would question why you're limiting it to this group rather than all of China.

I know that China has done very well. They're trying to lock the door, but I question whether the horse hasn't already bolted to the rest of China. There are two other provinces that have over 500 confirmed cases of the novel virus. There are a bunch of provinces with over 200 confirmed cases of the virus.

According to the New York Times, between October and November there were two million flights of people from Wuhan to other places in China. Remember, we're two weeks behind because of the incubation period of up to two weeks. If you already have 600 or 700 cases in some other provinces, have you considered the possibility that the horse has bolted and that we ought to be doing the same thing for anyone who is coming from China? If we haven't done that, why aren't we considering extending these same sorts of precautions to anyone coming from China?

5:05 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Canada Border Services Agency

Paul MacKinnon

I appreciate the question, Mr. Chair. Again, I would preface any comments I make with the fact that it's really a Public Health decision to make.

From our perspective at the border, we're constantly looking at different options. As I mentioned earlier, if we were in a position where the health authority were to say that we should have a different line of questioning...and you've suggested one particular line that you think is important.

Mr. Chair, we take note of that comment, and any change in status from our perspective would rest with Public Health to make that decision.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Darren, you have two minutes.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you folks for being here with us for a couple of hours today and imparting all this wisdom. I want to thank you for the work you have been doing.

The questions that were asked here today by the committee members were all really good questions. I have to say that I've been on committee for four years, and what I'm hearing from the committee members is concern for Canadians.

Mr. Paul-Hus and Mr. Davies touched on reaction time and preparedness for repatriation.

Ms. Jeffrey, you did an excellent job outlining the complexity of this situation. You made a comment that a week ago next to no one was registered as living in that region. It is fascinating that now we're at over 300 people. Had we sent a plane this time last week, there would have been nobody to get on that plane.

Ms. Jeffrey, could you maybe outline this a little bit? You talked about visas. You talked about the lack of a consulate. You talked about some of these things, and maybe just to get them on the record you could talk about how difficult it is to find those folks and find out if they want to come home.

Ms. Kwan was asking questions about family unification—important stuff that makes this so complicated. Then there is dealing with the Chinese government, which said at the outset that if people didn't come in with a Canadian passport, they were not going home.

I wonder if you could just touch on some of those complexities. We may run out of time, and if we do, I think there is another segment coming up that is mine, but could you, just for the record, touch on some of those complexities? I think we went from two to 20 to 25.

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Heather Jeffrey

I would say that this is a common feature of a lot of our emergency responses. We have a registry of Canadians abroad. It's voluntary. People can let us know when they travel where they are going to be so that we can reach out to them in the case of a natural disaster or a sudden emergency.

We know that not all Canadians choose that service, for different reasons. They tend to choose to register when they go to places where they expect to have trouble—more difficult, more complex, more hostile environments—and not in places where they are very comfortable and feel safe. That particularly applies to people who are visiting family and relatives, etc. They tend not to think that anything is going to happen.

Part of our consular policy outreach is to encourage that, to bring more awareness to that, to understand where people are so that we can have a better initial picture of exactly what the environment is like when an emergency strikes.

In this particular case, having a presence on the ground is really critical, not just to understanding where Canadians might be but to engaging quickly with local authorities to start unblocking some of the things that get put in place particularly in a health crisis like this, in which there is a lot of anxiety and fear and you have a government that has taken quite extreme, unprecedented measures to lock down particular regions and cities.

That has created a lot of the issues we have, even in terms of the permissions we needed to get from the Government of China to move staff into the area. It's not just that people couldn't get out. Our staff was also not allowed in because the border around the province was sealed and closed. We had to move staff there by road. We had to make sure they had the right protections. We had to have all the right authorities, not just national but also provincial and municipal. That's one example.

It is really this very detailed consular work with families that is so important to determining what people's needs are, and then to figuring out, as the Government of Canada, how we can address them, because each family situation is very different.

In the case of the children, which we have discussed at length here today, there are particularly good examples of that with very different family configurations, including people with grandparents who aren't able to travel, and we're working case by case to figure out the best way for us to assist them.

It isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. Even though it looks like sending a plane is the one-size-fits-all solution, when you unpack everything below that, there is a lot of information that has to go into it to allow us to do the work with local authorities in an environment where we don't control all the elements, to make sure that they are facilitated in getting to the airport. The plane is actually not the most complicated part. The most complicated part is getting Canadians from across this province to the place where we can reach them directly and help them to exit.

All of these are things we've been working on. Each response provides a lot of lessons learned. They are all different, and we'll be unpacking this as well. In this particular environment with a pandemic response of this nature, it's the first time we've had to assist such a large number of Canadians within a quarantine zone. Responses to SARS and Ebola were emergency responses as well, but they were of a very different nature.

We're working with our allies. In particular, I have daily calls with my counterparts from all of our like-minded countries, who are all mounting these operations. We are sharing lessons learned. We are working to facilitate the departure of each other's nationals on our planes, and to make sure that we are advocating jointly where possible to unblock some of the challenges that municipal or local governments have put in place. Those are in place for maybe very good reasons on the China side, but they pose challenges for us as we help our nationals to depart.

That international dimension of the work is very important, and we've had very good, close collaboration with our allies on that.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you for your Herculean efforts. We appreciate them.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

We go now to Mr. Kitchen for five minutes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My colleague brought up the reality that all of a sudden we're identifying a lot more people now than we were a week or so ago. That's of concern in the sense that perhaps there are more Canadians there. As we are aware, most Canadians don't tell Global Affairs that they're out of the country.

One of the concerns might be the fact that people are saying they're afraid of cost. I'm wondering what you are saying or what will be said to people travelling, on being evacuated out of there, as to what the costs will be. Are they going to be expecting a bill when they get back, so the Visa bill comes in and here it is?

What have you told Canadians in this evacuation?

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Heather Jeffrey

In this case, given the context, the lack of commercial departure options, and the absolute need for the Government of Canada to facilitate and support the exit, a decision has been made that we will not be recovering the costs of this evacuation. It's being offered as a humanitarian measure to support Canadians and their families, so cost will not be an obstacle for Canadians who wish to depart.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

Can you tell us what's in place or what needs to be in place for someone, let's say, who is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident if they are found to be inadmissible into Canada?

5:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Heather Jeffrey

We work very closely with our partner agencies, in particular IRCC and CBSA. CBSA has officers also deployed in Wuhan. We will be working with those agencies to ensure that all passengers are properly documented, that they have the right authorities and that all the appropriate checks have been given. This is standard in any natural disaster or other emergency evacuation.

To make sure that those procedures are done, we do them in a very agile way, very directly, often in situations—for example in earthquake or hurricane responses—where there aren't even the usual systems in place, but they're done thoroughly, effectively and directly with phone calls and connections back here to make sure that people are properly documented and that the right checks have been done, but that they're done at a speed that allows them to use the departure option that's been provided.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

Mr. McCrorie, you indicated that you've communicated with air carriers and you've informed them of measures that the Government of Canada is implementing. Can you tell us what those measures you informed them of are?

5:15 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Aaron McCrorie

Again, we're playing more of a facilitative role. The first, as I think Mr. Vinette alluded to, is to require pilots on aircraft, when somebody is identified as potentially having symptoms, to immediately notify the air traffic control system so that when they arrive, the system here in Canada will be ready for anybody who shows up displaying symptoms.

The second part is to ask airlines—there are 10 now, but there were 11—flying directly from China to Canada to make an announcement prior to landing to inform passengers of the new arrival procedures to facilitate and help our colleagues in CBSA process people as they arrive.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

I'm assuming you mean that the flight crew would notify the pilots, who would then notify you. Is that correct?

5:15 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Aaron McCrorie

Do you mean if somebody demonstrates symptoms on the aircraft? That's correct. Regardless of how the captain of the aircraft becomes aware, it is their responsibility then to inform air traffic control, who will then notify us, and then we'll notify.... It's about making sure that the right information gets to the Public Health Agency of Canada so they can greet the aircraft upon arrival.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

I'm going to share with my colleague.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

You have one minute.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

In the span of 12 days, January 22 to February 2, a total of 18 people reported feeling ill. I asked this question earlier. This past Saturday alone, 37 individuals reported feeling unwell in secondary airports. We can therefore deduce that, over those 12 days, there were probably many arriving travellers who did not report that they felt ill.

Can you speak to that?

5:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Travellers Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

Denis Vinette

I'm not sure the number is actually 37, but there were 18 individuals nationwide. That includes the new airports added on Saturday, where passengers are being asked the screening question. These are people who were referred to the Public Health Agency of Canada, which made the appropriate decisions regarding next steps. Three of the individuals were referred to medical services.