Health Committee on May 13th, 2020

[Paul G. Brunet]

You know that, since 2003, there have been departmental guidelines. Documents were prepared under the leadership of the former minister of health, Mr. Couillard. However, these rules weren't applied. As I said, everything is documented.

We fought to ensure that people's personal laundry was paid for. We're now fighting to ensure that people who are continent aren't forced to wear a diaper. What a disgrace! We're fighting for this basic care. This isn't a joke.

There are currently some very serious issues, which are the subject of a class action. Basic care is expected. How is laundry done? During the class action, lawyers asked me how clothes are washed. The clothes are washed as they would be in your home, counsel, madam, sir: white separated from colours; delicate clothes in a delicate load. Four lawyers from Fasken Martineau DuMoulin LLP asked me this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We will go now to Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Hall, I just want to be clear on this. I understand your evidence. Is it your view that the long-term care sector is not entitled to apply for federal infrastructure funding?

[Jodi Hall]

Yes, our understanding is that under the existing infrastructure funds through the housing strategy, we are not eligible for applications.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

We've heard evidence, and my research has shown, that there is a critical problem with infrastructure in long-term care homes in this country.

Has the federal government given you any explanation or principled reason why long-term care facilities would not qualify for that funding?

[Jodi Hall]

There seemed to be a lack of understanding and perhaps confusion. Some have felt that we were eligible for that, but, in fact, we've determined that we are not, so that was a critical area for us to understand.

It is often cited as well that there is provincial jurisdiction, so that becomes the realm of the provinces. It is important to note that with the aging transition of our population and increasing health system costs on the provincial governments, they have extremely limited resources.

We seem to have fallen into this bit of a grey space, if I can call it that. Certainly we have respect for the federal and provincial responsibilities, but we do see this as an area of shared responsibility, and that's why we're asking for the federal government to come alongside the provinces with this sector to help us address those infrastructure needs.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

The federal government gave several billion dollars to provinces targeted at mental health, which is also administered by the provinces. I remember in 2009, after a recession, the Conservative government at the time made funds available for infrastructure, for recreational facilities like curling rinks and arenas. Certainly there is no constitutional barrier to that.

Ms. Langolf, you had the opportunity to tour senior homes and long-term care facilities in British Columbia when you were president of Cosco. I would also like you to start talking about your views on home care and how this might fit into the equation. What did you notice when you toured those homes? How does home care fit into the equation, in your view?

[Gudrun Langolf]

One of the reasons why we're looking at some phasing-out of long-term care, although we can't eliminate it altogether, is that people generally prefer to be in their own homes. I don't think I have to show any studies. That's pretty evident from all kinds of literature that's around.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'm sorry, Ms. Langolf. Could you speak more loudly, please?

[Gudrun Langolf]

Sure. I will try to do that.

Obviously, not everyone should be in long-term care facilities. I know that some of them are better than others, and people are more or less comfortable in them, but I think the overwhelming majority of people would prefer not to be there. In order for them not to be there, unless they have really difficult or complicated health issues that require 24-7 care, many of their needs could be met at home, if the home was adapted in a way that was going to be useful in terms of whatever their needs are.

One of the things we see is that there had been a contraction of services for home care. Not everything was covered, and there seemed to be artificial distinctions among housekeeping, meal preparation and administration of medication or therapeutics, as though they are separate. If your home is not a hygienic one, that's not going to be a good situation. I don't know how you can divorce cleaning, cleanliness, laundry services and so on from health conditions in general.

That may seem odd, but I think the services to seniors have to combine or span a whole spectrum of services that perhaps are punctuated by the end station which is, generally speaking, palliative care or a long-term care situation. That's an inevitable process of aging. All of us will face that sooner or later. Hopefully for all of us it will be later, but that's the way it goes.

I think this particular pandemic has given us the opportunity to have a critical look at, and apply some critical thinking towards, the kinds of things that would help make things better. I think that people like Dr. Armstrong and Isobel Mackenzie, and a lot of others, have developed and amassed a great deal of information. Doing more detailed studies, we really prefer not to see that happen. Gathering all that stuff together may be a good idea, and then see how it can be applied in a national way.

Seniors are running out of time. I'm in my seventies. I don't want to wait another 15 years before we tackle this sucker. It has to get fixed. We have to do it. It would be a dumb thing if we did not use this opportunity, as Isobel was mentioning. You have huge numbers of people waking up to the reality of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Langolf, could you wrap it up, please?

[Gudrun Langolf]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate being on this soapbox.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, and we enjoy it as well.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That brings round three to a close. I would like to thank all witnesses for sharing with us their time this afternoon and all of their valuable information. It's most helpful to our work.

Thank you to the members of the committee as well. Also, thank you to everyone for bearing with us through our technical difficulties. Thank you to all our technicians who, day by day, get out there and solve our problems for us.

Thank you all. The meeting is adjourned.