Evidence of meeting #20 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seniors.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
No, it's not good.
We'll suspend the meeting for a few minutes and get this sorted out.
The meeting is suspended.
6:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
We shall now resume the meeting.
Please go ahead.
I'm not sure, but I think you have three minutes left.
6:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond Centre, BC
Okay, sorry about that.
First of all, I'd like to thank all the witnesses. You have covered a very wide range.
One of the things we have been talking about is federal leadership. My understanding is that there should have been many federal, provincial and territorial—what we call FPT—ministers responsible for seniors and looking after these. I don't know whether our current minister has done that. Definitely this is the right time, especially for the long-term care homes and other jurisdictions that are mainly provincial, yet we need to take the lead.
When we talk about seniors in social isolation, we're looking at three different groups of people: those who are in seniors homes, those who are living with their family members, and those who are living by themselves. When we look at their physical and mental needs, I think we should have different reactions.
I'd like to ask if any of our witnesses could shed some light on the different needs of these three different groups.
Maybe I could ask Ms. Mackenzie, then, about the seniors in social isolation, the three different groups.
6:25 p.m.
Seniors Advocate, Office of the Seniors Advocate of British Columbia
Thank you, Alice.
You've identified that COVID-19 looks different depending on whether you are living alone, living with somebody or living in long-term care. We need to look at that.
Long-term care is a big focus of COVID, and we've spent a lot of time talking about it. There are definitely changes that need to be made, but we cannot forget the home care piece, what that needs to look like and how robust that needs to be. Then we need to look at the piece that is about the seniors who live alone and how we are going to keep them connected to the non-health services they need, because if we don't, they are going to develop health care needs.
We can step back, maybe not today but in a few weeks or months, and take a look at what really has happened here across a broad spectrum of seniors and their needs and what it is that requires federal leadership in order to effect the kinds of changes that are needed.
That would be a very good way for the federal government to approach it.
6:25 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond Centre, BC
Just now, our witnesses mentioned a lot about the hardware, what sorts of structures there need to be, redoing some of the seniors homes, and the challenges. At the same time, we are looking at the software part. That's not the only issue now and in the future for our caring for seniors, especially in seniors homes.
We are looking at training as well. Of course, one of the witnesses mentioned that we could have some short-term solutions, but some people don't realize that it is actually skilled work. It's not just anybody who can do it, especially the passion part.
I was able to visit some homes lately, because I was helping a youth group deliver masks to all these different seniors homes in the Lower Mainland. Of course, there is a shortage of PPE and the community is stepping up to help them. Some of them were so passionate that I was almost in tears.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond Centre, BC
My comment is that we should really care for the caregivers as well, those who are informal, who are helping from homes, the relatives and friends, and those who are working in these seniors homes, the front-line people. It is important that we look after them as well. That is the message I want everybody to have in mind—care for the caregivers—and also to share my experiences with them, so thank you very much for allowing me to do that.
I apologize for the inadequacy of my equipment. As Tamara has witnessed, I haven't had any problems except with this committee. There is something against me, it seems.
Thank you very much.
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you.
We'll go now to Mr. Fisher.
Mr. Fisher, you have five minutes. Please go ahead.
May 13th, 2020 / 6:30 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
As always, thanks very much to all the witnesses who are here today.
Ms. Hall, yesterday the Prime Minister and the Minister of Seniors announced the tax-free $300 on the OAS and an additional $200 to those who qualify for GIS, positively impacting six million to eight million Canadians, plus previous announcements with regard to funding community organizations.
I am interested in your thoughts on that announcement yesterday as it pertains to seniors.
6:30 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Association for Long Term Care
As has been noted, there definitely are those individuals across the country who will largely benefit from this.
There are questions around the scope of the benefit. Is it sufficient? Does it reach enough seniors who actually have needs? There are questions around those who are in care. Will that be extended to them, and how does that translate?
Of course, I think it's a positive move to be able to support people who have needs that are unique to the COVID outbreak, but there are other questions about whom exactly it applies to. More information would be helpful.
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you for that.
Ms. Mackenzie, you had everybody in our committee writing down the freak-out factor and highlighting it when you said that.
I feel that the focus and discussion around long-term care workers and clients became all about PPE and not necessarily about control measures or basic hygiene measures. I thought maybe you could tell us a little about those early days.
6:30 p.m.
Seniors Advocate, Office of the Seniors Advocate of British Columbia
Certainly. When we look at Lynn Valley and what happened there, for want of a better term I call it clinical leadership. Strong clinical leadership is needed, particularly now in this environment.
Community care aides are 70% of the care staff in our nursing homes in this country: personal support workers, as you call them in the east, and care aides, as we call them out west. Understanding infection control, understanding how PPE works, understanding the use of N95 masks and aerosolizing procedures was, I think, a piece that was missing.
It weaves through this issue around the care aides in our care homes. This is a place where the federal government could show leadership. I'm struck by the fact that we have national standards—not just standards, but exams—for RNs and LPNs, but we don't have any such national standard for care aides. Part of the way that you make a person feel valued, and part of the way that you attract people to something called a profession, is that you actually provide those standards.
In the 20 years that I worked predominantly with care aides—I worked with nurses and LPNs as well—they craved training. They wanted to be able to take courses. Our system is set up.... It's very frustrating. I could send my nurses on courses and I didn't have to backfill them. It was easy. If I sent my care aides on courses, I had to backfill them. That cost money, so they sort of got left behind in all of it.
I think that is an area: federal leadership around standards, not just around what happens in care homes and care ratios, but around the level of training. I am a big proponent of standardized exams. They have to be practical and written, I do understand that, and they don't tell the whole story. They do not get to the piece around the EQ—emotional quotient—that is needed to be able to provide this kind of care.
Jodi is quite right. The wrong person with the right training is as much a recipe for disaster, in fact I would say more so, than the right person with the wrong training. We have to be careful about that.
Certainly PPE is one example where, if we had better training, more high-level training, more standardized training, we could have.... A lot of concern and anxiety have been created around this. I think when we step back and look at it, we're going to realize that yes, that was important, but really there was this other piece over here. I think that is a key area where the federal government could show leadership as well.
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
We go now to Monsieur Desilets.
Mr. Desilets, you have two and a half minutes
6:35 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to say good afternoon to all the witnesses and to thank them for responding to our request and sharing their expertise. I'm very pleased.
My questions are for you, Mr. Brunet. You referred to your bill tabled on April 25, which concerns the desired supervision, management and slightly higher levels of oversight. Can you elaborate on this and on how the bill was received?
6:35 p.m.
President, Conseil pour la protection des malades
We submitted this bill to the two new ministers, Ms. McCann and Ms. Blais, in January 2019, after they were appointed. We told them not to hold any other political or parliamentary committee meetings because everything was written and documented.
For 30 years, we've known how to treat an elderly person, how to care for a person who is severely paralyzed or who is suffering from various health issues, and how to help a person eat when that person has difficulty swallowing. It's all written down. Now is the time to act.
We've drawn inspiration from these reports, which generally come from the Quebec department of health. We've proposed a basic bill that addresses the minimum level of care and services required. Everything is covered, including laundry, food, menu choices and so on. Now is the time to implement it.
6:35 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
The class action that you're leading refers to the word “abuse.” I want to know your definition of this abuse.
6:35 p.m.
President, Conseil pour la protection des malades
The concept of abuse was included in Liberal government legislation a few years ago. It's the same definition that the United Nations uses. It's an act or the omission of an act that should be based on trust and safety for the person on the receiving end, whether it's a statement or an act, and that makes a difference, often negative, between something that's calm, comfortable and safe and something that isn't. The definition is quite broad.
We've used this concept of abuse, which doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in Canada, to make allegations of abuse in the health care system, whether the issue involves food, hygiene care, or basic dental care.
Even before the COVID-19 crisis, we had submitted about 20 grievances against the system that will be subject to a trial. The class action was accepted by the Superior Court. We're waiting for the trial.
6:40 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Okay.
What about basic care in Quebec residences? In your opinion, do the residences provide this care? Are we still talking about two baths or one bath every two weeks?