Evidence of meeting #20 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seniors.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marissa Lennox  Chief Policy Officer, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
Gudrun Langolf  Past President, Council of Senior Citizens' Organizations of British Columbia
Paul G. Brunet  President, Conseil pour la protection des malades
Isobel Mackenzie  Seniors Advocate, Office of the Seniors Advocate of British Columbia
Jodi Hall  Chair, Canadian Association for Long Term Care
Pat Armstrong  Distinguished Research Professor of Sociology, York University, As an Individual

5:45 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Association for Long Term Care

Jodi Hall

It is critical that we have access to an appropriate workforce. It does give me pause to think about any particular mandate being given to a group who may not necessarily have a desire or an aptitude. Caring for frail elderly is work that requires someone with great compassion and skilful ability. Of course, if there are individuals among the population who are willing and open to receive that training, we would certainly welcome them as members of the workforce. But I would be hesitant to see something that would be a forced program, if I can express it that way.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

That's assuming they had the appropriate training for the level of skill that's needed.

5:50 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Association for Long Term Care

Jodi Hall

That's correct, yes.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Ms. Lennox, I'd appreciate your comments.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I'm sorry, Dr. Kitchen, your time is up.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Oh, thank you.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

It was going so well, I was in a lull, but—

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

I was hoping to get Ms. Lennox back into the conversation somehow.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Yes. Anyway, thank you.

We go now to Ms. Sidhu.

Ms. Sidhu, you have five minutes.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here with us.

My question is for Ms. Mackenzie.

British Columbia has reported 285 cases in long-term care homes and 74 deaths as a result of COVID-19, but Ontario reported more than 2,000 cases and more than 1,000 deaths from COVID-19 in its long-term care homes.

What is B.C. doing better? What are the best practices so other provinces can follow them?

5:50 p.m.

Seniors Advocate, Office of the Seniors Advocate of British Columbia

Isobel Mackenzie

I've spoken of it and others have as well. I think the reason we are seeing at this moment better outcomes in British Columbia is because of what we learned at the first outbreak at Lynn Valley. I think the approach has been that, first of all, we lowered the barrier to declare an outbreak on one case. The normal outbreak threshold is two cases, one laboratory confirmed. Also, we looked at staff equally as residents. I don't know how many people here have been in practice, but when I was in practice we never looked at staff for influenza swabbing; we looked at residents. That, I think, has helped.

The minute the outbreak is declared, which is one confirmed case, either staff or residents, public health gets in there immediately and gives direction to the care home around all of the things that need to be done. We talk about the cohorting and about these other things.

In British Columbia, 75% of our residents are actually in single rooms. I think that is higher than other provinces. I think that has also helped us manage the best practices that PHAC has recommended, and that any infection control person would recommend.

The recognition of the care staff as the vectors of transmission and the designation to one work site, which was done earlier, has been helpful. If there's one area where we lagged a bit—and I would say everybody did, and Jodi has talked about this—it was the testing of asymptomatic people in an outbreak situation. I think we learned. Early on, we weren't doing that because the evidence at that time was that the test was ineffective if you were asymptomatic. We now know that asymptomatic people can both shed the virus and test positive for the virus. So we have started that best practice as well.

I think it's those things. Certainly, the quick, SWAT-like intervention of public health at the very beginning has been absolutely key to helping us.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thanks for that.

My next question is for Dr. Armstrong.

The Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre put out a bulletin warning Canadians to watch out for scams associated with COVID-19. They warn that fraudsters want to profit from Canadians.

As you know, people of all ages can be victims of fraud, but older people are targeted more than others. What more can be done, working with public health authorities, to cut down or eliminate the spread of misinformation? Have you any thoughts on that?

5:50 p.m.

Distinguished Research Professor of Sociology, York University, As an Individual

Dr. Pat Armstrong

Others might be better able to answer that question about fraud and misinformation than I am.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Anybody can talk about that. Most times they target seniors. Even though all ages can be victims, seniors are being targeted.

5:55 p.m.

Distinguished Research Professor of Sociology, York University, As an Individual

Dr. Pat Armstrong

For sure, there's no question that, as we've heard from a number of people, the older you get, the more vulnerable you can be to a number of these scams, not because you're not smart or capable but because they take advantage of what might be areas where you don't have the expertise, such as me and technology.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

In your view, how has the pandemic impacted seniors' mental health and well-being?

5:55 p.m.

Distinguished Research Professor of Sociology, York University, As an Individual

Dr. Pat Armstrong

In terms of long-term residential care, both those who are inside and those who are outside the home, and Isobel was stressing this, are suffering a great deal from fear and isolation. Even if you're in a long-term care home, you're suffering from isolation.

I want to go back to something that Isobel was saying earlier about long-term care. We seem to see this as the worst option in terms of where people can get care.

I went to a resident council meeting here in Toronto as part of a study we were doing and asked them if there was anything better about being there than at home, and they unanimously said, “Oh, yes.” They said that at the care home they felt safe, but they were talking about safe in terms of getting things such as their insulin. They had company and they had activities. Therefore, we have to think about these places as good places to be when we're responding to this type of issue.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Ms. Sidhu.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thank you.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Monsieur Thériault, we'll go now to you, for two and a half minutes.

5:55 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Brunet, in a document signed by your organization and entitled “Other people overlooked during the COVID-19 pandemic,” you referred to people with mental health issues who are hospitalized and housed in a Quebec department of health and social services facility.

Tell us a bit about this issue. What should be done to ensure that these people receive proper health care while being protected from COVID-19?

5:55 p.m.

President, Conseil pour la protection des malades

Paul G. Brunet

We've received complaints from over 200 user committees in as many health care facilities in Quebec. We're standing up for 300 individual members.

The places that house people with mental health issues are telling us about the significant amount of isolation and the many restrictions. If the premises were better adapted to the needs of these people, they could wander around despite their mental health issues. We're told that these people are victims of the lockdown.

It's sad, because many places, such as the Albert-Prévost mental health hospital and the Louis-H. Lafontaine hospital, are run-down. Imagine that, because of COVID-19, people with mental health issues need to be locked up even more than usual. This has led to a great deal of turmoil, safety issues and physical violence, because a number of people with mental health issues don't understand what's happening.

Mainly, the premises are run-down and they can't accommodate people with serious mental health issues, especially during the current crisis. This has been a major challenge.

5:55 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

CHSLDs have two types of missions, one related to care and one related to the living environment.

5:55 p.m.

President, Conseil pour la protection des malades

5:55 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

I think that, in the pandemic era, we're falling far short of the mission in relation to the living environment, since we've taken families and caregivers out of these environments.

Starting today, what should be done to try to quickly resolve the situation under the current circumstances?