Health Committee on Dec. 4th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the eleventh meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health. The committee is meeting today to study mental health aspects of the emergency situation facing Canadians in light of the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic.

For the first hour we have, from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, Mr. Paul Kurdyak, clinician scientist; from the Hub Town Brewing Company, Lisa Watts, founder and chief executive officer; from MOSAIC, Saleem Spindari, senior manager, refugees and migrant workers programs; and from Ordre des psychologues du Québec, Christine Grou, president, and Isabelle Marleau, director, quality and development of the practice.

I'll leave the list of witnesses for the second hour until later.

I'd like to start the meeting by providing you with some information.

Following the motion that was adopted in the House on Wednesday, September 23, the committee is now sitting in hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either in person or by video conference. All members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the purpose of quorum.

The committee's power to sit, however, is limited by the priority use of House resources, as determined by the whips. All questions must be decided by a recorded vote, unless the committee disposes of them with unanimous consent or on division.

Finally, the committee may deliberate in camera, providing that it takes into account the potential risks to confidentiality inherent in such deliberations with remote participants.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

For those participating virtually, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either the floor, English or French. Before speaking, click on the “microphone” icon to activate your own mike. When you're done speaking, please put your mike on “mute” to minimize any interference.

I'll remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Moreover, should members need to request the floor outside of their designated time for questions or to intervene on a point of order raised by another member, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order.

In the event that a debate is under way—and we do not debate points of order, by the way—members should use the “raise hand” function; this will signal to the chair their interest to speak and will create a speakers list. To use this function, you should click on “participants” at the bottom of the screen, and when the lists pops up you will see next to your name that you can click “raise hand”.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of headsets with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely.

Should any technical problems arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may need to suspend for a few minutes, as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

For those participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Should you wish to get my attention, signal me with a hand gesture or, at an appropriate time, call out my name. Should you wish to raise a point of order, wait for the appropriate time and indicate to me clearly that you wish to raise a point of order.

With regard to speaking lists, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

I want to thank the witnesses for appearing today. You have seven minutes for your presentations.

I'm going to try something new for this committee—at least for me. When we get to the “one minute remaining” time, I will display a yellow card. I don't think it really shows up as yellow. When your time is up, I will display a red card. Please wrap up quickly after that.

I will do likewise for members when they are asking questions.

We will start now, with the Centre for Addictions and Mental Health and Mr. Paul Kurdyak, clinician scientist.

Please go ahead, sir. You have seven minutes.

[Dr. Paul Kurdyak, Clinician Scientist, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health]

Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

To start, there's no question about why there's concern about the mental health consequences of the pandemic. It's for all sorts of reasons, but you have provided five questions or areas of interest.

The first two—the mental health impact of the pandemic on specific populations, and gendered impacts—reflect a desire to understand the mental health needs of the population, including specific groups. The second two areas—availability of support programs and the role of virtual care—are related to a need to understand accessibility of services. The final area covers the role of the federal government in meeting these needs.

These are all important questions to consider. However, the main point I would like to make is that if we had properly functioning mental health systems, including properly integrated information management systems in each province and territory, this information would be readily available.

The implications of not knowing population-based mental health or addiction needs, or the services required to meet such needs, is not limited to the COVID-19 pandemic. We have never known much about the mental health status of the Canadian population or the services that exist to meet such needs. The availability of such information is required to monitor mental health system performance, and the absence of such information means that policy-makers will not know how to adequately respond to need.

How have we determined population need in in Canada? The main source of information has been generated by Statistics Canada surveys. While surveys have been incredibly useful in measuring the prevalence of the most common mental disorders, they measure mental health status at a point in time. A pandemic, however, is highly dynamic.

In the void of timely, accurate information, small, low-quality surveys and polling firms have generated sensationalist results. My colleagues, Dr. Scott Patten and Senator Stan Kutcher, have commented on why these surveys are not a substitute for proper surveillance, and why relying on them to respond to the mental health needs of Canadians is bad policy.

Since 2015, in Ontario, the Ministry of Health has funded the ICES mental health and addictions research program. We are a team of scientists, epidemiologists and research analysts who work in close collaboration with policy-makers.

We use Ontario's health administrative data to map the performance of Ontario's mental health system. We have uncovered a lot of detail about access to care and the outcomes of certain populations prior to the pandemic. Here are some highlights:

Between 2009 and 2017, the rate of mental health and addictions-related emergency department visits nearly doubled in transitional-age youth—that's youth aged 16 to 24. Nearly half of those youths who had an emergency department visit for mental health and addictions-related reasons had no prior outpatient access, meaning they were showing up to the emergency department—half of them—as their first point of contact.

Only two out of five individuals who visited an emergency department for a suicide attempt saw a psychiatrist within six months following that attempt. All of these indicators we can measure readily, and they indicate pre-pandemic that the system was not particularly responsive.

We are also busy using the same data to understand the impact of the pandemic. For example, we would determine whether or not people who were accessing services prior to the pandemic continue to receive services with the massive shift to virtual delivery. We also want to understand whether there is more demand for services as the pandemic progresses, including addiction and suicide-related indicators.

Prior to the establishment of the ICES mental health and addictions program, Ontarians knew very little about the performance of their mental health system. The same type of data we use in Ontario exists in each province and territory. With a small and coordinated investment, the capacity to measure the mental health system in each province and territory is feasible.

Organizations like the Canadian Institute for Health Information, or CIHI, could have a federal coordinating role. There are also initiatives emerging, like the Health Data Research Network, that could also be leveraged for this kind of activity.

Moreover, this same data can measure the impact of investments over time. The kind of work we do at ICES is useful for showing what is happening with the data we have available. It is not useful at measuring population-based need. For this, we need new infrastructure. Currently, the services for individuals with mental illness and addictions are the furthest thing from coordinated.

In Ontario, we are planning on developing regional centralized access. Establishing centralized access will serve a number of functions.

First, it will be one central place individuals can access for their mental health needs instead of having to understand the various services in their niche patient populations. Second, over time, it will characterize the populations seeking care so that need can be measured dynamically. Third, once that need is understood, a determination can be made of whether the services in a given region are capable of meeting need, and there will be an opportunity to realign services. This is exactly what has happened to support cancer, cardiac, stroke, and other services in provinces and territories.

When I think about the questions posed by the standing committee, my main questions is, why have we not built the infrastructure to answer these questions with actual data? If we believe mental health is a priority, we need to commit to developing infrastructure that has resulted in developing world-class health systems in other areas of the health care sector and to apply such knowledge and expertise to the mental health system.

Historically, in the mental health sector we have addressed problems by funding interventions and building programs and simply hoping they meet needs as designed. What we have not done is systematically measure population-based need for these interventions and programs. We have also not systematically measured whether the funded interventions achieved outcomes as intended.

If we proceed with responding to mental health and addiction-related needs of the COVID-19 pandemic based on hypothetical needs and with no measurement framework in place, we run the risk of propagating an already fragmented response to the mental health needs of Canadians. Canadians with mental illnesses and addictions deserve a mental health system that is responsive to their measured needs and accountable for achieving certain outcomes.

The only way this will happen is by developing system-building infrastructure, which has occurred in other areas of the health care sector. Avoiding this critical step will result in responses to need based on conjecture and advocacy, with no capacity to measure the impact of such investment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Doctor.

We'll go now to the Hub Town Brewing Company, with Ms. Lisa Watts, founder and chief executive officer.

Please go ahead, Ms. Watts.

[Lisa Watts, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Hub Town Brewing Company]

Thank you.

My name is Lisa Watts. I am the president, CEO and co-founder of Hub Town Brewing, a small microbrewery in downtown Okotoks. We opened our doors in September of 2019 after four long years of planning, writing and rewriting business plans, strategizing, fundraising, and growing our brand and building our community.

I'd like to start by saying thank you for having me here today to speak a little on how the pandemic has affected Hub Town, us as owners, and everyone we've worked with over the past nine months as we navigated both our first year in business and a global pandemic that has essentially forced us to move in directions we had never considered, in an effort to survive.

I think the best way to describe the feelings that have at times completely overwhelmed us and at other times have sat almost mutedly dormant in the background, from the early days in March through to now, is to say that it's been a roller coaster. As each terrifying obstacle was put in front of us, such as closing down our taproom, which provided 99% of our revenue stream, or reducing the capacity to below survivable numbers when we were able to reopen, we seemed to follow most of the stages of grief, holding tight to some of those stages a little more, while experiencing moments of elation and pride in between.

Like jumping over hurdles, each of which is higher than the last, the obstacles that we face and continue to navigate have done a couple of things for us. They have forced us to find a lot of solutions, testing our ability to stretch our limits and to find new paths that were never ever in the plan, nor ever a consideration. It actually managed to boost our confidence in our ability, teaching us that we and our business can survive more than we ever thought possible.

The side effect of this, however, is that roller coaster I spoke of. We would fluctuate from panic mode—trying to find new ways of bringing in revenue when those who provided the revenue to us were being coached to stay home and avoid us—to pure elation, when we would find an unexpected revenue stream that shot us into almost rock-star status with our target market.

What never changed, however, was the mental and physical anxiety that came with each of the highs and each of the lows; the weird new habits that I've taken up, such as chewing on ice all day long. I can't even explain where that came from. The anxiety just produced the desire to crunch on something constantly. There was no other way of getting out what was going on. And there was waking in the morning with a racing heart, wondering what was in store next, good or bad.

As I began to work through what I think I was identifying, for the first time in my life, as anxiety, I would have conversations with my husband and business partner Mark, picking apart every daily update from our federal or provincial governments that we worried would once again threaten our path.

These conversations spilled over into talks with other business owners, our staff, our patrons, our families, our friends, teachers, nurses—you name it. We all talked about it. If it wasn't on the TV, it was on the radio, and it never left our brains.

Even a couple of days ago, when we tried to disconnect from TV, radio and talking about the pandemic, we went shopping at Costco and noticed a flurry of shoppers—on a Tuesday at 4 p.m. In our town, this is abnormal. Immediately we knew that something must have happened on that day's update to cause some panic and that we had better listen to it to see how our worlds were about to change once again.

If the anxiety and elation were the only two things, the only giant swings that we had to manage throughout the pandemic, I think we would have been a little better off. But throw in a little anger and resentment and you have the third and fourth valleys of our roller coaster ride.

As a business, we are subject to criticism and jealousy, like everyone else. When we were positively growing our business during the pandemic, when many were suffering, and we were trying to dodge the obstacles, so too came the anonymous complaints. This would mean that our AHS inspectors would come to see us, measure that all of our tables were six feet apart back to back, reconfirm for the umpteenth time that we had sanitizer available for everyone there and of course that our staff were all wearing masks non-stop.

It didn't matter that the rest of the world didn't wear masks to protect us and our staff, nor bring their own sanitizer, nor ask to sit further away from people but would rather sit closer, if at all possible. We as a business were responsible for ensuring that the world didn't infect each other, and we somehow had to do this without angering them into never patronizing us again.

This was and always will be the hardest position we and our staff have ever had to be in. We were heavily judged for not forcing people to mask, when there was no bylaw, and we were heavily judged for having a sign up reminding people to wear masks when the bylaw became a part of our reality.

It was a lose-lose situation, and we had to coach our team on how to deal with each and every attitude that walked in the door, when honestly, we didn't know what the heck we were doing ourselves; nor did we know what the right thing to do was.

The inconsistent rules between businesses and schools helped further grow our anger and resentment, and although we continued to ride the roller coaster of highs and lows, the anger was drowning everything else out until just over a month ago, when we hit bottom.

Let me just say that I've never had my own experience with depression before. In fact, I was the person who said that depression was an emotion we could probably all control—we just needed to want to try.

When my anger hit an all-time high and was followed by the feeling that I could barely think past 20 minutes ahead—nor did I care to—I realized that I might be experiencing this depression thing.

My motivation to figure out how to manage the next obstacle was gone. My desire to find a new revenue stream, in light of all of the items that come and were being put in our face, was gone. I was tired and wanting nothing more than to just stop.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Watts, can you please wrap up?

[Lisa Watts]

Sure.

This is when I said aloud that whatever happens will happen. With teenage and adult children, aging and lonely parents, and a business that was impossible to predict from one week to the next, we finally got off the roller coaster and sat still for awhile—no planning, no ideas, no solving problems, nothing, for just a little while.

Although writing this down has brought a lot of those thoughts and feelings back to the forefront, I think we're finally starting to get into a place where we can figure it all out, or at least believe that we have the capability.

In summing up the way this pandemic has affected us, I'll always go back to the visualization of that roller coaster and all that it brought, the good and the bad. I hope that what we've gained from this experience will alway outweighs the losses in the end, because there have been a lot of both.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Watts.

We'll go now to MOSAIC, with Saleem Spindari, senior manager, refugees and migrant workers programs.

Please go ahead.

[Saleem Spindari, Senior Manager, Refugees and Migrant Workers Programs, MOSAIC]

Honourable Ron McKinnon, chair of the Standing Committee on Health, and honourable members, it's an honour to appear before this esteemed committee.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I am speaking today from the unceded ancestral territories of the Coast Salish people, namely the Musqueam, Tsleil-Waututh and Squamish first nations. I'm honoured and privileged to have the opportunity to play, live and reside on their land.

My name is Saleem Spindari. I'm the senior manager of refugees and migrant workers programs at MOSAIC.

MOSAIC is one of the largest settlement non-profit organizations in Canada. We serve immigrant, refugee, migrant and mainstream communities in Metro Vancouver and the Fraser Valley, as well as throughout the province of B.C. and overseas via online programs.

MOSAIC's work is derived from its vision that “Together we advance an inclusive and thriving Canada.” At MOSAIC, I oversee programs that support migrant workers, refugee claimants, privately sponsored refugees, international students and other marginalized groups. I will provide brief remarks about the impact of COVID-19 on these groups.

In early March I received from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada a notification of arrival indicating that one of the families that MOSAIC is privately sponsoring would arrive in early April. A visa was issued and travel arrangements were made.

Here in Vancouver, we made all of the arrangements for the arrival of the family from Africa, with the help of a host family who volunteered to provide support to the family upon arrival. Then travel restrictions were imposed, and the flight was cancelled. This had a huge impact on the mental well-being of the family, as they continued to live under deplorable conditions in the refugee camp.

The government recently allowed privately-sponsored refugees who had had their visas issued prior to March 2020 to travel to Canada, but many others are still waiting. Most of the visa offices overseas are still closed, and this is having a huge impact on the lives of refugees who are waiting and have sponsors ready to welcome them.

In British Columbia, we are fortunate to have the first pilot project to support migrant workers, otherwise known as temporary foreign workers. I'm proud to be leading a community capacity-building project to support migrant workers and groups working with them. This project, which is funded by Employment and Social Development Canada, has provided the much-needed funds to support a group that provides an immense contribution to our economy.

Regrettably, the temporary nature of the migrant workers program makes them vulnerable, and it continues to break families. The impact of COVID-19 has been huge on migrant workers as they worry about their family members who are left behind. More restrictions are imposed on their movement. In many cases they cannot even leave their places of employment, and they face difficulties meeting their immediate needs.

I'm glad that the government is currently looking into creating guidelines for migrant workers' accommodations. It is a great first step, but much more is needed.

I call upon the Government of Canada to extend funding to other provinces and to make the B.C. pilot permanent, as the project has been very successful in supporting the mental health, well-being and other needs of migrant workers. Staff at my program have been able to meet migrant workers during their 14-day isolation while following health guidelines, to help them address their needs there.

Refugee claimants who arrived before or during the closure of offices faced challenges in finding accommodation, in obtaining required documents to apply for benefits and employment or to get a hearing date. All of this had a huge impact upon their mental health at a time when they are away from the families they left behind while seeking protection in Canada.

With funding from the B.C. government, MOSAIC has been working closely with other partner organizations to support the mental well-being of refugee claimants during these uncertain times. Of course, these programs are now offered via Zoom and MS Teams.

In closing, I want to remind the esteemed committee that refugees, migrant workers, refugee claimants and international students continue to make immense contributions to Canada's economy. I call upon Canada to offer a pathway for permanent residency to all migrant workers, as not all of them have that. If they are good to work here, they are obviously good to stay here.

Those temporary and permanent residents who are internationally trained professionals should be given the opportunity to practise in Canada. They continue to prove that they are capable, willing and have the skills needed to practise their professions. We have seen the contributions they have made during COVID-19. I call upon the Government of Canada to ease the restrictions and remove the existing barriers toward their licensing.

Thanks again for the opportunity to speak today. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Spindari.

We now move to Ms. Grou, President of the Ordre des psychologues du Québec.

You have the floor for seven minutes.

[Dr. Christine Grou, President, Ordre des psychologues du Québec]

First, my thanks to the House Standing Committee on Health for giving us the opportunity to talk about the impact of the pandemic on mental health.

I am Dr. Christine Grou, psychologist and neuropsychologist. I am a clinician specializing in mental health. I am accompanied by Dr. Isabelle Marleau—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Excuse me, Doctor.

For the interpreters, the sound levels for the witness and interpretation are at the same level. I'm on the English channel, so perhaps I made that happen by trying to speak French on the same channel. I wonder if you could have a quick look at that and see if you can address it.

Dr. Grou, you may continue.

[Dr. Christine Grou]

Okay.

I'm accompanied by Dr. Isabelle Marleau, a clinician specializing in pediatrics.

We will talk about the impact of the pandemic on mental health. We looked at two components for this. The first part is a review of the research on mental health during the COVID-19 crisis. The second part is the observations of our members—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I apologize, Dr. Grou. I'm sorry, we still have the problem.

Mr. Clerk, can you fix the problem?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. David Chandonnet]

I'm checking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to suggest something, if it has not already been done. At the bottom of the menu, there is the “participant” icon. This is also where we can select the French channel, when we speak in French. This means that the sound of the French channel will not be at the same level as that of the English interpretation. We often have this problem during our meetings. I'm not sure whether this has already been tried, but you can try clicking on the centre icon at the bottom of the screen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Dr. Grou, can you check that?

Please check to see if you are on the right channel.

[Dr. Christine Grou]

I just changed to the French channel. Is that all right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I think that will help.

Thank you.

You may continue, once again.

[Dr. Christine Grou]

Okay.

So we looked at two aspects. The first is a review of the research on mental health during COVID-19. The second is the observations of psychologists, members of our order, regarding the deterioration in the health of clients, both in the public health network and in private practice.

The observations reported in the literature and research on mental health and those of our members converge fairly well.

First, quite a significant increase in anxiety has been observed. We know that, in a matter of months, people had to adapt to a lot of things. For some people, grief has accumulated. For others, and I would even say for the majority, fatigue and psychological wear and tear have set in.

An increase in depression or symptoms of depression has also been observed. This often manifests itself through loss of energy, loss of pleasure, feelings of self-deprecation, feelings of inadequacy, a state of discouragement or despair, or difficulties with sleep and appetite.

There is also an increase in other more serious mental disorders, particularly in people who are experiencing cognitive loss as a result of aging. Their condition is worsening, particularly as a result of increased stressors. Less attention is being paid to these individuals and, for some, the pandemic is causing a disruption in mental health services.

In addition, there is an increase in alcohol consumption and dependence on other substances.

Furthermore, health care workers are particularly vulnerable. Many studies show an increase in anxiety and depression among health care workers.

The lockdown leads to an increase in psychological distress and feelings of discouragement.

In 96% of people affected by COVID-19, some symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder were observed at the end of their quarantine.

The young and the elderly were particularly affected by the lockdown. Seniors were affected by loneliness, isolation, lack of work or activities, and sometimes even by not being able to leave the house. For young people, their social and emotional development was impeded.

We surveyed the members of the Ordre des psychologues du Québec. First, 86% of them responded that they had observed an increase in anxiety. Second, 67% of our members observed that former clients had returned for treatment. Also, 65% of our members told us that they had managed crisis situations or emergencies. In addition, 70% told us that they had seen an increase in the symptoms of depression. To a lesser degree, 44% of them observed relational or parental difficulties as well as an increase in alcohol consumption, break-ups and suicidal issues.

Let me briefly talk about telepractice or virtual practice adaptations. Studies have previously shown that telepractice is effective. Many psychologists who had previously used telepractice minimally began to use it. According to the literature, 86% of them have used it. Half of our members said that it met the needs of people during the pandemic. However, more than half said it had an impact on communication and interaction during treatment.

I will briefly mention what we have done to support the public.

At the beginning of the pandemic, we released general advice on how to stay psychologically healthy. We provided advice for parents, children, adolescents and parents of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. We also offered advice for the bereaved, people whose loved ones were in long-term care centres and died from COVID-19.

We also conducted more than 200 media interviews in an attempt to understand the psychological effects of the pandemic. We also produced short videos to help people.

For psychologists in Quebec, we prepared specific training, such as training on telepractice and crisis intervention. We communicated extensively with our members to provide them with practice and ethical advice that could support their practice during this exceptional period.

With the support of the Ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux and the Ministère de l'Éducation, of course, we also worked to find possible solutions to adapt services and protect people from the difficulties and psychological distress that may arise.

In conclusion, it is imperative to increase mental health care and services for the public. A form of mental health pandemic is developing at the same time, and it is likely to last longer than the pandemic itself. It is therefore important to increase the availability of mental health services, but also to diversify them in order to meet all the needs of Quebeckers. Access to psychotherapy, a treatment shown to be effective, must also become universal and free.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, doctor.

We will start now our round of questions. We will have time for one round.

Mr. Barlow, I understand that you're first. Go ahead for six minutes, please.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and our witnesses that are presenting to us today. The timing of your presentation, I think, is very apropos, as we saw the latest statistics released by the Canadian Mental Health Association yesterday. I think the numbers are quite sobering when you see that more 70% of Canadians are worried about the second wave, and 40% have said that their mental health has deteriorated since March.

When one in 10 Canadians is having suicidal thoughts, I think we have a very serious problem that we need to address.

Ms. Watts, I really appreciated your intervention, the passion and obviously the feelings that you've had as a small business owner. I think that one area we do not talk enough about is the impact this is having on our small business owners. Is this anything that you've ever experienced in your previous career before becoming a business owner? The mental health impacts of this have been nothing like anything else you've ever experienced as a business owner, by the sound of it.

[Lisa Watts]

It's definitely a different experience. I've been in non-traditional careers my entire life. I was in oil and gas as an engineer, a pipeline specialist actually. I worked on the Trans Mountain pipeline, trying to certify it for fitness for service. There was always lots of arguing and lots of things that were quite difficult, if you want to look at it from mental health perspective. There were always challenges to what we were putting in place to try to protect the pipelines because they didn't make money. In the long term, they saved money, but people.... There were a lot of challenges there. There was always something that I've had to work through in my professional life because that's just the nature of the businesses that I was in.

This took me to a different level. I think I'm extremely passionate and extremely motivated, and I'm able to find solutions in the worst of situations, but when the solutions were piled with more and more problems, on top of being a brand new business, I think there was just a breaking point. I never knew that I had a breaking point, to be honest with you. I never knew that was in my makeup. I just was not that person. Yes, it was different than anything else.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm assuming that as a business owner you have a network of people who are in similar positions. I am going to make the assumption that you are not alone in this, that this is a very common situation amongst business owners throughout your community, maybe in your network across the country as a craft beer owner.

[Lisa Watts]

Absolutely. We're watching other breweries shut down right now, simply because the narrative that's out there is, “Why are we allowing alcohol producers to be open and schools to be shut? How dare they want to make money during a pandemic? How dare they not protect the public?”

We're watching the people in our industry close their doors because of the narrative. It's very harsh. It's difficult to balance the desire to bring in revenue and the requirement to protect the public's health.

When we talk with other business owners, there's no question; we have all cried. We have all screamed and yelled, and wondered how in the heck we are going to get through this. It's probably more than most can handle.