I was quoting from your study.
Evidence of meeting #11 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #11 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:05 p.m.
Adjunct Lecturer, Department of Psychiatry, University of Toronto, Mental Health Research Canada
Okay, our second poll.... We were surprised that levels of anxiety and depression had not changed since the beginning of the pandemic; they did not improve in the summer. They have not changed in areas of the country that have higher case counts or more lockdown measures. The levels went up and they've stayed stable. That's a surprise to us. I can't really explain that.
As to what happens to pull us out of this, I'm not sure.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
3:05 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you to all the witnesses for your excellent testimony.
Dr. Waddell, you authored a report titled “COVID-19 and the Impact on Children's Mental Health”. Among many things, it found that for children who had been isolated or quarantined, 30% exceeded the clinical threshold for post-traumatic stress symptoms. I find that an astonishing figure, and considering that this is an acute reaction to the situation, do you have any recommendations for steps we can take to provide an immediate response that might help those children suffering from post-traumatic stress?
3:05 p.m.
Professor and Director, Children’s Health Policy Centre, Faculty of Health Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
I really appreciate that comment.
There are very effective treatments for post-traumatic stress disorder in children. Principally, they comprise cognitive behavioural therapy. These are therapies that can be done online or by telephone or by video. The current restrictions are not an impediment to them. The real impediment is what I mentioned in my remarks, that we had such severe service shortfalls pre-COVID, and now we've been caught quite flat-footed. We need to ramp up the responses [Technical difficulty]. What those studies in our report also showed, speaking of the word “hope”—most children do get through this. [Technical difficulty] if their parents are coping better, if their families and communities are coping better.... It's highly relevant to all of the conversation you've just been having about how adults are doing. It's obviously very central to how kids are doing. Nonetheless, we need to really significantly increase those services. The treatment I just mentioned, cognitive behavioural therapy, is a brief treatment. You can give that effectively to even very young children in just, say, 12 sessions, and get kids in a much better place very quickly. We didn't have the pre-pandemic capacity; we need to get it now.
3:10 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
We did hear a little testimony that as conditions improve and perhaps as a vaccine is disseminated and the general optimism in society rises and stress comes down, it may have a positive impact on people's mental well-being, and we also know that children are very resilient. Might we expect a natural reduction in the trauma of children as general conditions get better? I don't mean that to be an excuse for doing nothing. I'm just wondering what the impact of a general improvement will be.
3:10 p.m.
Professor and Director, Children’s Health Policy Centre, Faculty of Health Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
A general improvement for families that were struggling economically—for them to get further help, as an example—would definitely help kids. The studies we reviewed in our report showed that most kids do recover. We still have to address those underlying deficits in children's mental health services. It's not something that Canadians appreciate. I think it's an invisible problem. But what kind of children's health problem would we tolerate having less than 50% treatment rates for full-blown disorders? I want to keep mentioning that because it's quite astonishing.
3:10 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Would I be correct in assuming that one of the mental health challenges, particularly for children, is their inability to identify it, recognize it and ask for help? Is that an additional barrier?
3:10 p.m.
Professor and Director, Children’s Health Policy Centre, Faculty of Health Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
That's one barrier. I think a larger one is still our continuing failure to fully appreciate that virtually all mental disorders start in childhood. When they first start, they may appear milder. They aren't going to appear the way they would for a 40-year old, for example. So they're a little harder to detect, but we don't ask kids. We could. And right now, if we do ask kids and find out there are problems, it can be very difficult for them to get service, because again, fewer than half the kids with disorders can get services. You can ask someone and then you can't get them help.
3:10 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I'd like to move to that. I think to the Liberal government's credit, a few years ago they allocated, I believe, $6 billion over 10 years or a period of time specifically to the provinces for mental health. I think it doesn't do violence to any party to recognize that Canada is actually below the OECD average in the percentage of our health dollar allocated to mental health.
So I think those are welcome funds. I'm wondering of you are seeing that money actually result in additional services yet.
3:10 p.m.
Professor and Director, Children’s Health Policy Centre, Faculty of Health Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
I just want to say that it was a terrific initiative. In our policy brief to the standing committee, we mentioned that there could be invigorated opportunities to build on that earlier precedent. We didn't see those dollars going towards children. I think it was actually a really helpful move by the federal government to put strings attached for mental health, but the majority didn't go near children.
What I'm suggesting, and what the data we presented in our brief to you suggests, is further earmarking for children's mental health. Otherwise, kids may never see the benefit. It's a great form of initiative to do that earmarking so that we increase mental health spending.
3:10 p.m.
NDP
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
That brings our round of questions to a close.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for helping us with our study today and for sharing their time and expertise. We have a little bit of committee business now. Feel free to withdraw, if you wish. You don't need to stick around for this.
The clerk has sent to all committee members a couple of PDFs of the budgets for these particular studies that we are now engaged in. These budgets, I understand, are primarily to pay for headsets and so forth for witnesses. Monies that are not spent will be returned to Parliament.
I would like to draw your attention to the first one, the amount for the PMPRB study of $3,000.
May I ask the committee if they approve this budget? Are there any questions or concerns? I'm going to ask if there is unanimous consent for this first budget. Is there any dissent?
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
The second one is for the COVID study that we are also now engaged in. That's an amount of $8,500.
Do we have any concern or discussion on this? We're looking for unanimous consent. Is there any dissent?
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Thank you, everybody, for your time today and your great questions.
I'd also like to thank the interpreters specifically. I know it's a challenging environment to work in. I really do appreciate how you slog through the troubles and travails of all of this. I thank you all.
3:15 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Mr. Chair, I have a quick question for the clerk on the PMPRB study.
Part of the motion that was passed requested that each potential witness fill out a basic conflict of interest screen document and also declare whether they're in receipt of any money from the pharmaceutical industry. I'm wondering if the clerk can advise the committee on where we are with that. I haven't seen any standard document or report. I'm wondering what the status of that part of the motion is.
3:15 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Jean-François Pagé
We have four witnesses confirmed for Friday of next week. Two of them have signed the document. It was prepared by the law clerk. Yes, as soon as I have the four witnesses ready to sign the document, I will send to all the committee members the documents signed by the witnesses.
3:15 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you.
As a follow-up, does that document also indicate whether they are in receipt of money? There are really two aspects to the motion: the potential conflicts of interest and the receipt of money from the pharmaceutical industry. Are both of those covered?
3:15 p.m.
The Clerk
I think so. I will have to read that again, but I think so, because I sent the motion to the Law Clerk, and he based his document on the motion that we adopted.
December 4th, 2020 / 3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Chair, I have just one quick question about Monday.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I have a simple scheduling question. I know there were some questions offline about when Mr. Webber's private member's bill would be referred to committee.
I'm not sure that the notice of meeting for Monday includes that, so I'm wondering if you have any clarification on what Monday's agenda is going to be.
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
At this point in time, I can't give you any more advice on that. I do understand that there may be an amendment coming forward. I think that's going to be discussed with Mr. Webber, and if there is no objection by Mr. Webber and the other parties to that amendment, we may well be able to do this on an expedited basis. Otherwise, we may have to delay until after the break.
I'm certainly hopeful that we can do this for Mr. Webber. I have worked with Len for a long time, and I really do support his work. His frustration has been that something that was passed unanimously two or three years ago, or whatever it was, died in the Senate.
I thank you all for your support on that. I will advise you as soon as I can.
Clerk, if we're able to do this at the end of the day on Monday, we will certainly advise the members ASAP.
Again, thank you all. Are there any more questions that I have missed? Okay.
The meeting is adjourned.